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[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

Liberty wrote:

I think most people would agree that casinos want to extract as much as possible from their punters. That they monitor your movements and deposits around their sites and try to entice you back with user specific promos.

They also use the same technique to identify problem gamblers and make contact with them altho I’m sure only a slightly cynical mind would think they do this to cover their own backs and also to make it seem like the tech they are adding is to help players rather than try to efficiently fleece them.

I have gambled for 20 years and for 10 online. They obviously have an full understanding of how much I play. How much I’ve lost and how degenerate I get. Yet I haven’t received a single email or chat from any of them saying “ hey man, your losing quite a lot and on a regular basis, you need to take a break”

Funny how Bandit got a personalised email from casumo a few weeks ago to show us all in his video innit!

has anyone else received anything remotely like that from a casino saying anything close to that?

[Li Liberty WANTED $132 Outlaw]

Just Basics wrote:

And this leads directly to my previous points. Why would a casino who already have a huge edge. Then implement other things to have a greater edge?

Greed.

Sorry this is slightly flawed. A casino will do anything it can legally to improve their bottom line but it doesn’t automatically follow that they will risk their gambling license to further increase profit. Its like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The rtp guarantees they win over time, their ts and Cs help to solidify this, ai/analytics also can boost this but straight out cheating can stop the whole thing.

 

That’s not to say it definitely doesn’t happen, just that it’s incredibly unlikely to both happen and not be reported /caught by regulatory bodies. Imo.

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

Biohazard wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

I am not here to change my own way of feeling about this wheel. My mind is already made up. So don’t try to change my opinion about this certain subject. I will simply never backtrack.

And alas, we arrive at the key problem with this forum.

Quoting 1 single line of what I’ve said in this whole thread to berate me.

That’s what the problem is Bio.

Ive gone back and forth, retracted and followed up on everything I’ve said here. Please don’t start shit mate. Thought we were past sly digs by now.

[Li Liberty WANTED $132 Outlaw]

Just Basics wrote:

Liberty wrote:

I think most people would agree that casinos want to extract as much as possible from their punters. That they monitor your movements and deposits around their sites and try to entice you back with user specific promos.

They also use the same technique to identify problem gamblers and make contact with them altho I’m sure only a slightly cynical mind would think they do this to cover their own backs and also to make it seem like the tech they are adding is to help players rather than try to efficiently fleece them.

I have gambled for 20 years and for 10 online. They obviously have an full understanding of how much I play. How much I’ve lost and how degenerate I get. Yet I haven’t received a single email or chat from any of them saying “ hey man, your losing quite a lot and on a regular basis, you need to take a break”

Funny how Bandit got a personalised email from casumo a few weeks ago to show us all in his video innit!

has anyone else received anything remotely like that from a casino saying anything close to that?

I recieved contact from one in the last 12 months, the very last time I had a blowout. It might well be that things have changed recently idk.

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

Liberty wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

And this leads directly to my previous points. Why would a casino who already have a huge edge. Then implement other things to have a greater edge?

Greed.

Sorry this is slightly flawed. A casino will do anything it can legally to improve their bottom line but it doesn’t automatically follow that they will risk their gambling license to further increase profit. Its like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The rtp guarantees they win over time, their ts and Cs help to solidify this, ai/analytics also can boost this but straight out cheating can stop the whole thing.

 

That’s not to say it definitely doesn’t happen, just that it’s incredibly unlikely to both happen and not be reported /caught by regulatory bodies. Imo.

Casino laws.

This is the problem Liberty.

casinos implement their own.

Lets say we play Rock Paper Scissors yeah!

You have only your brain to beat me.

But I have your full history of decision making. I have odds calculated to the second what u will choose. I have a backlog of information on how you play. I have a brain that can calculate any scenario.

Am I cheating….or do I just have an edge?

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

ive posted a fucking video…of a fucking roulette wheel that is 100% magnetised and 100% regulated by the UKGC

I have no solid unrefutable evidence that the roulette wheel is rigged. I only have a very high understanding that games that are in no way transparent can be rigged.

I am not here to change my own way of feeling about this wheel. My mind is already made up. So don’t try to change my opinion about this certain subject. I will simply never backtrack.

Right, well I’m glad we’ve got to the bottom of it and you’ve now agreed with what I said in my first post: “You’re going to believe what you want to believe, regardless of what evidence is presented.”

So moving on to this AI business: you say AI is being used to monitor and track players, to analyse your playing habits and betting and they do this to better target you with personalised promotions, game recommendations and other marketing tactics they think will get you to spend more money with them.

The only bit I’d dispute here, as I’ve seen no evidence for it, is that casinos use any technology I’d call “artificial intelligence” to do this. But it doesn’t matter whether you’d call it that or not; either way, yes they definitely do track and analyse your play for marketing purposes and customising what we call your “user experience”. What I don’t get is why you think that’s controversial; every business does it, it’s not in any way unique to the gambling industry. It’s not any different to how Sainsbury’s Nectar card works. Almost all businesses today use data mining and analysis to target you to spend more money with them, that’s the nature of consumerism and technology converging.

Casinos absolutely want you to spend all your money with them, there’s even a term in the industry “extinction”, which is when a player can simply not deposit any more because they’ve blown all their money.

If you think you’re making some biblical level revelation to everyone by bringing this up, JB, you’re not. It’s common knowledge. You’d have to be a bit of an idiot to not realise this is happening, you’d have to have been living under a rock on Mars for the last 10 years.

That casinos are not above targeting and encouraging players to gamble beyond their means, beyond a bit of fun they can afford, is exactly why we have the Gambling Commission, the regulator I frequently mention and you constantly shit all over and call corrupt, it’s why they’ve fined big casinos including Casumo and LeoVegas literally millions of pounds when they’ve crossed the line and failed to adequately protect problem players. It’s why they’ve revoked the licence to operate in the UK market of others.

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

argyl53 wrote:

ive posted a fucking video…of a fucking roulette wheel that is 100% magnetised and 100% regulated by the UKGC

I have no solid unrefutable evidence that the roulette wheel is rigged. I only have a very high understanding that games that are in no way transparent can be rigged.

I am not here to change my own way of feeling about this wheel. My mind is already made up. So don’t try to change my opinion about this certain subject. I will simply never backtrack.

Right, well I’m glad we’ve got to the bottom of it and you’ve now agreed with what I said in my first post: “You’re going to believe what you want to believe, regardless of what evidence is presented.”

So moving on to this AI business: you say AI is being used to monitor and track players, to analyse your playing habits and betting and they do this to better target you with personalised promotions, game recommendations and other marketing tactics they think will get you to spend more money with them.

The only bit I’d dispute here, as I’ve seen no evidence for it, is that casinos use any technology I’d call “artificial intelligence” to do this. But it doesn’t matter whether you’d call it that or not; either way, yes they definitely do track and analyse your play for marketing purposes and customising what we call your “user experience”. What I don’t get is why you think that’s controversial; every business does it, it’s not in any way unique to the gambling industry. It’s not any different to how Sainsbury’s Nectar card works. Almost all businesses today use data mining and analysis to target you to spend more money with them, that’s the nature of consumerism and technology converging.

Casinos absolutely want you to spend all your money with them, there’s even a term in the industry “extinction”, which is when a player can simply not deposit any more because they’ve blown all their money.

If you think you’re making some biblical level revelation to everyone by bringing this up, JB, you’re not. It’s common knowledge. You’d have to be a bit of an idiot to not realise this is happening, you’d have to have been living under a rock on Mars for the last 10 years.

That casinos are not above targeting and encouraging players to gamble beyond their means, beyond a bit of fun they can afford, is exactly why we have the Gambling Commission, the regulator I frequently mention and you constantly shit all over and call corrupt, it’s why they’ve fined big casinos including Casumo and LeoVegas literally millions of pounds when they’ve crossed the line and failed to adequately protect problem players. It’s why they’ve revoked the licence to operate in the UK market of others.

Yeah forget the promotional sides of A.I mate. I’m fully content about that part. And I am not bothered in the slightest that they use A.I for marketing.

Its the hidden part that needs to be discussed.

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

Just Basics wrote:

Liberty wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

And this leads directly to my previous points. Why would a casino who already have a huge edge. Then implement other things to have a greater edge?

Greed.

Sorry this is slightly flawed. A casino will do anything it can legally to improve their bottom line but it doesn’t automatically follow that they will risk their gambling license to further increase profit. Its like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The rtp guarantees they win over time, their ts and Cs help to solidify this, ai/analytics also can boost this but straight out cheating can stop the whole thing.

 

That’s not to say it definitely doesn’t happen, just that it’s incredibly unlikely to both happen and not be reported /caught by regulatory bodies. Imo.

Casino laws.

This is the problem Liberty.

casinos implement their own.

Lets say we play Rock Paper Scissors yeah!

You have only your brain to beat me.

But I have your full history of decision making. I have odds calculated to the second what u will choose. I have a backlog of information on how you play. I have a brain that can calculate any scenario.

Am I cheating….or do I just have an edge?

I direct the above question to Argyl also.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

What’s the hidden part you want to discuss?

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

argyl53 wrote:

What’s the hidden part you want to discuss?

The hidden part is not relevant yet. Please answer the above question about Rock Paper Scissors.

i will discuss the parts I think are hidden after you and Liberty answer my hypothetical question.

[Li Liberty WANTED $132 Outlaw]

Your analogy of rock paper scissors is interesting.

1) in rock paper scissors it would give you an edge, just like knowing a poker players history gives you an edge

2)i don’t see how this converts to a casino for the following reasons

A) if they are able to control where the ball lands them they don’t need to know my history as they will know what I’ve bet on for that roll

B) if they can’t control where it lands then knowing my history doesn’t help them

I might be missing your point but I hope you understand my objections to your analogy. Please feel free to expand.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I direct the above question to Argyl also.

I’m not sure about the context of the question you’re asking. Say we’ve played rock-paper-scissors a thousand times before and you’ve kept track of a full history of those results and have it immediately available in your head, in a split second while you make your decision about which one to pick in the next round of play. Is that what you’re describing?

If so, I would say it may give you a very slight odds advantage, but humans are actual Turing machines – that is, we are capable of true unpredictable, true random, non-determinate output to any given input. We are simply not formulaic or algorithmic such as our choice in rock paper scissors to be necessarily predictable. You could use previous data to more finely adjust your odds if you were trying to quickly calculate what I might be likely to pick, but you’d never be able to rely on it to know what I’ll pick in advance of me doing it.

I don’t know if this is answering your question because I’m not 100% on what you’re asking or looking for by way of reply.

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

Your question makes no sense… You’re implying that a hypothetical situation is used then asking us if that is cheating or implementing a house edge? Obviously cheating. But I don’t get your point, this isn’t how online casinos operate.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I don’t think I’d call what JB is describing in the rock-paper-scissors thing cheating; as Liberty says, it’s more analogous to keeping track of a poker player’s history play style. If you’re really clever, you can do that to give yourself a little bit of an edge that might help you make a more informed judgement about how to bet against them, how likely they are to be bluffing, etc. That’s certainly strategic, but it isn’t cheating, it’s actually the difference between being a poker player and a good poker player.

And just like with poker, so it’s the same with JB’s example: sometimes, for all the strategy in the data in the world, you’ll still make a wrong call because humans are fundamentally unpredictable and adaptive.

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

Wow just….wow! All I wanted was a simple yes or no. But we seemed to get into long winded when I was in WW1 story’s again!

Ok forget what I said and now implement Artificial Intelligence into every casino game that ever was.

Do I have to give evidence and examples on how A.I actually works?

It is far superior in every single way to us. It is also unpredictable and adaptive. But it’s even more unpredictable and adaptive than we are. It outshines us in every department apart from our morals and humanity.

I simply can’t have this conversation with you 3, because you never acknowledge that things can be hidden beyond your beliefs.

 

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