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[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Mr B wrote:

Biohazard wrote:

No, I’m not naive at all. I’m a realist, always have been.

This one is 100% rigged. There’s no question about it.

It’s statements like this that make debates on this forum quite often impossible.

Open your mind, see both sides and provide the corresponding evidence if you actually want to have an intellectual debate on this topic.

Let me introduce you to Joe.

Joe started out life as a pretty good egg, cared for his siblings, friends and parents. Until one day he seemingly got in with the wrong crowd and his life path changed dramatically. He got hooked on an known addiction (doesn’t matter which really does it ?) and committed crime to fund it. Inevitably he ended up in trouble with the law, getting cautions, fines, community service and eventually jail. He then went on to be jailed 4 more times until present day. He has been collared for no less than 12 crimes over 4 years.

And we’re all supposed to believe he only committed 12 crimes.

I made that story up. But it reflects the lack of yearning for the corrupt to admit to every wrong doing they have committed.

There is almost certainly a lot more corruption in the gambling industry than we find out about. I feel to think that to be wrong, is incredibly naive. I mean, what industry, sector or type of business doesn’t have corruption ? Everything except the gambling industry and it’s £14b pa payload.

And I said that with an open mind. Honestly, butter wouldn’t melt.

 

That’s exactly my point. Wherever there’s huge money to be made, you can bet your ass there’s fraud and corruption. Specially in the casino industry, where the casino sets all the rules, and you have no way of looking into if they are scamming you or not.

And to believe the 3rd party regulators keep them straight is incredibly naive. Where do you think the 3rd party regulators get their paycheques from? Without the casino industry they’d be out of jobs, and their companies would be gone.

Corruption exists everywhere. Just look at your very own government. Do you think they actually work for you? When a democratic vote says leave the EU, the MPs do everything to remain. The ones who are supposed to be the best of us are the most corrupt ones, and it doesn’t seem to have any consequences for them – cus money talks.

The greatest form of control is when you think you’re free when you’re being fundamentally manipulated and dictated to. One form of dictatorship is being in a prison cell and you can see the bars and touch them. The other one is sitting in a prison cell but you can’t see the bars but you think you’re free. 

What the human race is suffering from is mass hypnosis. We are being hypnotized by newsreaders, politicians, teachers, lecturers etc. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we’re told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely enormous. 

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Dune2000 wrote:

awesomex wrote:

Spin a win/Dreamcatcher Again with this one, I can see how this looks dodgy, but I think @Seedy has explained this one nicely. The same thing has happened on Dreamcatcher before. This is a giant wheel that spins on an axis of some sort, it’s mechanical, at times things are going to go wrong, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that there are controllable brakes that allow the casino to control the outcome how they please. Wheels like these are checked and verified all the time. It’d be so easy for them to be found out as ‘rigged’ by an independent commission if they were.

 

How much notice do the independent commission give that they are coming out to make a “surprise visit” ?

Reminds me of Rogue Trader where the independent audit team email to say they will be arriving in a week and can they be picked up at the airport.

 

Exactly!
Then, after they get picked up at the airport, they’re ready booked in to a 5 star hotel, all inclusive, paid by the casinos 😉

[Ol Oldmoon WANTED $27 Outlaw]

Nine times out of ten big hitters on the roulette will play certain sections obviously you get the odd nutter who does the scatter gun approach but it’s rare with high rollers.thats when the casinos strike spin them out give them a good shafting up the wrongun.

[Ol Oldmoon WANTED $27 Outlaw]

Cammegh slingshot 2tt if anyone’s interested take a look on their website discreet jets of air.lol

[Tricky0212 WANTED $82 Outlaw]

I pretty much stand 100% with Bio Hazard in this topic, and I agree that a proper debate is impossible because those who think it’s rigged can’t fathom any form of counter argument.

A simple way of putting it is like this. Let’s say someone gives you a machine and says – no matter what this machine will make you £250k per year without fail. You decide to “rig” it to try and get the machine to make you £300k per year. If you’re caught, your business is fined, you’re shut down and will never operate again. You now will not get your guaranteed 250k per year all because you wanted a little more.

That is basically a casino model. The games are designed to mathematically win in the long run. If you flipped a coin the bookies would offer you odds of 5/6 on heads 5/6 on tails. You play a thousand times and win 50% of your games (as you should) but they have still profited over you because of the way the game is structured.

There is no reason to rig any game, and the RTP debate should not be started again. Bottom line is very few people understand it and having lost from gambling on these games causes people to lose the ability to rationalise the facts involved. A game was designed to make you lose, and you lost – it’s that simple. What was meant to happen, happened – no rigging just the game randomly functioning as it should.

 

I’ll await some form of abuse.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Tricky0212 wrote:

I pretty much stand 100% with Bio Hazard in this topic, and I agree that a proper debate is impossible because those who think it’s rigged can’t fathom any form of counter argument.

A simple way of putting it is like this. Let’s say someone gives you a machine and says – no matter what this machine will make you £250k per year without fail. You decide to “rig” it to try and get the machine to make you £300k per year. If you’re caught, your business is fined, you’re shut down and will never operate again. You now will not get your guaranteed 250k per year all because you wanted a little more.

That is basically a casino model. The games are designed to mathematically win in the long run. If you flipped a coin the bookies would offer you odds of 5/6 on heads 5/6 on tails. You play a thousand times and win 50% of your games (as you should) but they have still profited over you because of the way the game is structured.

There is no reason to rig any game, and the RTP debate should not be started again. Bottom line is very few people understand it and having lost from gambling on these games causes people to lose the ability to rationalise the facts involved. A game was designed to make you lose, and you lost – it’s that simple. What was meant to happen, happened – no rigging just the game randomly functioning as it should.

 

I’ll await some form of abuse.

So from all the videos I provided, you think it’s all just random? When there’s proof, right there, clearly showing that the casino is cheating, you still defend the casinos? Something’s wrong with your head mate.

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

Tricky0212 wrote:

I pretty much stand 100% with Bio Hazard in this topic, and I agree that a proper debate is impossible because those who think it’s rigged can’t fathom any form of counter argument.

A simple way of putting it is like this. Let’s say someone gives you a machine and says – no matter what this machine will make you £250k per year without fail. You decide to “rig” it to try and get the machine to make you £300k per year. If you’re caught, your business is fined, you’re shut down and will never operate again. You now will not get your guaranteed 250k per year all because you wanted a little more.

That is basically a casino model. The games are designed to mathematically win in the long run. If you flipped a coin the bookies would offer you odds of 5/6 on heads 5/6 on tails. You play a thousand times and win 50% of your games (as you should) but they have still profited over you because of the way the game is structured.

There is no reason to rig any game, and the RTP debate should not be started again. Bottom line is very few people understand it and having lost from gambling on these games causes people to lose the ability to rationalise the facts involved. A game was designed to make you lose, and you lost – it’s that simple. What was meant to happen, happened – no rigging just the game randomly functioning as it should.

 

I’ll await some form of abuse.

So from all the videos I provided, you think it’s all just random? When there’s proof, right there, clearly showing that the casino is cheating, you still defend the casinos? Something’s wrong with your head mate.

I think it’s quite obvious that @Tricky0212 is talking about the grand scheme. The only clear cut proof you have posted is the BetOnline case, and I think we’re all in agreement with that one.

Can corruption in this industry happen? Absolutely.

The point being made here is that, the bigger, more reputable casinos, have no reason to be as corrupt as they’re being made out to be here. Yes, they could potentially increase their profit margin by doing so, and greed is a trait that most of us have, but the risk and reward simply doesn’t make sense. They already bring in large revenue, why risk all that with huge financial penalties and the threat of permanent closure?

Of course, I’m wasting my time here, as you have already made it clear you don’t trust any form of organisation, whether public or private. This debate is basically dead.

[Rb Rbreen91 WANTED $493 Outlaw]

This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

If some of you are 100% sure that you’re being scammed and defrauded, why are you gambling? I wouldn’t give money to a coke dealer if they were constantly under weighting me…

Maybe a visit to a mental health specialist is required in such cases.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Oh lordy. Dead or Alive 2: it’s just come out, it’s getting millions of spins as thousands of players hit it each day, it’s not surprising that you’re seeing some monstrous wins after a highly anticipated new game release. These will continue for probably a couple of months as the game gets that many more frequent spins than other titles, then settle down and drop off as people start to lose interest and move on to the next new release.

Spin a win: don’t know what that is, not a game I’ve ever seen in the UK. Doesn’t looked rigged to me in the video but I’m not going to comment on something I don’t know more about.

Rocknrolla roulette: mmm, was it rigged all those times he hit jackpot numbers for 10, 20, 30k or more at a time too? I’ve seen that guy start with £40 and get it up to 3 grand in a matter of minutes from a sequence of lucky live roulette hits. He bets big, he wins big, he loses big, that’s both his thing and the nature of roulette.

Jammin’ jars: this has already been explained. The game is random in compliance with regulation, but its implementation is unusual for a slot in that each spin is more like a virtual scratchcard and not independent reel sets, hence you can get two identical wins which play out exactly the same way in the presentation to the player. Irregular for a slot to work that way, but understandable given how the slot was designed and not in any way less fair or less random than any other game, just works differently.

Blackjack: no particular comment on the video, I never played blackjack but honestly if a casino is going to cheat you at live blackjack, they’re not going to do it in such an obvious, ham-fisted way as the dealer skipping a card right in front of you on camera. Perhaps someone else can speculate on what might’ve happened with that one, I don’t know the game well enough to say but I certainly wouldn’t take one dealer’s hand slipping on one round on one casino as proof that it’s deliberately rigged. Again I’ve seen Rocknrolla win loads of high stake consecutive blackjack hands.

This very site gets dozens of submissions every week of ordinary, non-affiliated players on slots hitting wins up to hundreds and even thousands of times their stake. If casinos and providers between them are in a conspiracy to rig games and cheat players out of money, the Big Wins page is solid evidence they’re not very good at it.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

argyl53 wrote:

Oh lordy. Dead or Alive 2: it’s just come out, it’s getting millions of spins as thousands of players hit it each day, it’s not surprising that you’re seeing some monstrous wins after a highly anticipated new game release. These will continue for probably a couple of months as the game gets that many more frequent spins than other titles, then settle down and drop off as people start to lose interest and move on to the next new release.

Spin a win: don’t know what that is, not a game I’ve ever seen in the UK. Doesn’t looked rigged to me in the video but I’m not going to comment on something I don’t know more about.

Rocknrolla roulette: mmm, was it rigged all those times he hit jackpot numbers for 10, 20, 30k or more at a time too? I’ve seen that guy start with £40 and get it up to 3 grand in a matter of minutes from a sequence of lucky live roulette hits. He bets big, he wins big, he loses big, that’s both his thing and the nature of roulette.

Jammin’ jars: this has already been explained. The game is random in compliance with regulation, but its implementation is unusual for a slot in that each spin is more like a virtual scratchcard and not independent reel sets, hence you can get two identical wins which play out exactly the same way in the presentation to the player. Irregular for a slot to work that way, but understandable given how the slot was designed and not in any way less fair or less random than any other game, just works differently.

Blackjack: no particular comment on the video, I never played blackjack but honestly if a casino is going to cheat you at live blackjack, they’re not going to do it in such an obvious, ham-fisted way as the dealer skipping a card right in front of you on camera. Perhaps someone else can speculate on what might’ve happened with that one, I don’t know the game well enough to say but I certainly wouldn’t take one dealer’s hand slipping on one round on one casino as proof that it’s deliberately rigged. Again I’ve seen Rocknrolla win loads of high stake consecutive blackjack hands.

This very site gets dozens of submissions every week of ordinary, non-affiliated players on slots hitting wins up to hundreds and even thousands of times their stake. If casinos and providers between them are in a conspiracy to rig games and cheat players out of money, the Big Wins page is solid evidence they’re not very good at it.

Again, someone who defends the casinos. Amazing.
For every submission on this page, I’m willing to bet everything I own that every single one of them have invested more than they posted in the big wins.

You’re really being way too uncritical of the guys in this business. I’m not saying Paul, Steve and the rest of the streamers can’t be trusted. What I’m saying is that there are always things behind the scenes that you and I don’t know about.

Do you really think casinos are willing to risk players like Rocknrolla and Bandit knocking them for 100k each every day? No. They’re not gonna leave it to chance. Initially the games are likely as described, but if someone is rolling huge, the casinos will have safeguards that come out of the closet to stop people from winning too much. Safeguards which regulators either don’t see, or are paid to not see.

It’s actually incredible to me how people can blindly trust and all out defend someone who’s set up shop in Malta to avoid local/national regulations everywhere else.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Of the more popular streamers, I think someone said 4 out of 6 has had a wildline/huge win within 1000 spins on the most volatile bonus NetEnt has ever released, outside of jackpot slots. That should tell you something.

[Mr Mr B WANTED $395 Blocked]

Biohazard wrote:

Mr B, I’m a little confused about why you have quoted me alongside that post?

Obviously corruption exists, who has said it doesn’t? I’m merely providing a counter argument to the examples given by the OP. “Rigged” isn’t the only possible route cause for these events. It’s about time people realised that.

Every time someone feels something is rigged, a set of people jump on them and prove nothing to say something isn’t rigged. They quote law, commissions and basically try to make people feel like they are wrong to suggest such things happen.

You say obviously corruption exists. But you don’t say in the gambling world, just generally. And just because “rigged” isn’t the only option, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

The black jack dealer was (someone said here I think) sacked. He was working to order I reckon. His sleight of hand failed. It is clear he deliberately flicked up the card having tried more than once until he felt it move. That’s my take on it.

The wheel that she tried to spin that stopped like a brake was still on. She was stunned. The guy in the video said it was her fault when maybe it wasn’t, maybe it was the brake operators fault. That looks more than suspicious.

That Seedy concedes that roulette wheels and such have motors (obviously not blaming seedy, that would be stupid) is horrendous if true. They don’t need any form of control. They need to engineered to be smooth and balanced to give the desired random spin which requires no assistance beyond the laws of physics. More weight equals longer spins. Better balance means smoother and longer spins.

Casinomeister lists a whole host of rogue casinos and while I am not saying every casino is playing beyond the house edge, and without evidence to prove there is, or isn’t, it is equally wrong to say (from nowhere) that casino is corrupt or indeed that casino isn’t corrupt.

I’m certainly not buying this bullshit excuse (was it argyl who said it?) that because a casino is bigger, it is somehow less likely to be corrupt.

And could the gov.commission be turning a blind eye in some way shape or form  as someone has said already ? I would suffer no form of shock if it was.

[Haz40 WANTED $1,167 Outlaw]

Corruption does happen in the gambling world. Take horse racing for example. Everyday it happens and always will. I’m extremely sceptical about casinos and i see both sides. There’s no smoke without fire.

[Ol Oldmoon WANTED $27 Outlaw]

I’m with you on this one awsomex,every time a new game hits the market  the streamers miraculously roll in a monster.that prick nickslots is on the payroll so obvious but have to respect others opinions.if they believe he is legit then so be it.

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

Again, someone who defends the casinos. Amazing.

Banter.

Mr B wrote:

You say obviously corruption exists. But you don’t say in the gambling world, just generally.

Biohazard wrote:

Can corruption in this industry happen? Absolutely.

On this very page.

Mr B wrote:

And just because “rigged” isn’t the only option, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

I agree with you.

Mr B wrote:

The black jack dealer was (someone said here I think) sacked.

It was me that said that. I read a whole case about it a while back. They interviewed him and tried to investigate why he did what he did (apparently) and refused to answer any questions. I agree this is a dodgy af one.

Mr B wrote:

Casinomeister lists a whole host of rogue casinos and while I am not saying every casino is playing beyond the house edge, and without evidence to prove there is, or isn’t, it is equally wrong to say (from nowhere) that casino is corrupt or indeed that casino isn’t corrupt.

Although, again, I actually agree with you, surely ‘innocent until proven guilty’ should play a factor here? If we don’t apply it, then where do we draw the line? Sometimes in life we have to be more trusting, it’s no wonder anxiety is such a prolific issue in this day and age.

Mr B wrote:

I’m certainly not buying this bullshit excuse (was it argyl who said it?) that because a casino is bigger, it is somehow less likely to be corrupt.

I said it. Risk and reward!

Mr B wrote:

And could the gov.commission be turning a blind eye in some way shape or form  as someone has said already ? I would suffer no form of shock if it was.

So what’s the advantage to them doing this? They could incur absolutely huge financial and operational penalties on the casino at fault (as they have done, particularly in the last couple of years). Even if the casino was to bribe them, this would never amount to even close to the penalties they could inflict.

Not to mention the scale of this corruption would be absolutely unprecedented if what people are saying in this thread was true.

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