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[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

If you had to call it, what percentage of the blame do you put on the industry for the collateral damage it leaves, to men, women, children, families and so on? For many people, the answer will be both not zero but hard to call. That will then lead to a therefore…

Therefore : is there really a duty of care ?
From whom, the government and or the industry ?
Is the reality of gambling poverty being stifled ?

[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

Reported as inappropriate content and removed from the recent topics.

Yet a valid question, even reluctantly by the industry standards.

[Seedy WANTED $1,244 Sheriff]

igc-rm wrote:

Reported as inappropriate content and removed from the recent topics.

Yet a valid question, even reluctantly by the industry standards.

Sorted I found nothing wrong with this question.

 

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

What would you change, Mr B?

[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

Firstly, gamstop for all betting places, virtual or not. This is 100% a must. I suspect is already on the way. Should have existed a long time ago.
I would also explain to every employee why.
I would also expect EVERY betting place to fund it.
Anyone who falls thru the net, gets fully supported so their children dont lose a parent, and so on. Vulnerable people should NOT be getting thru the door. I don’t know how this is policed, sow etc.

Bookies don’t care about kyc, at all. Sharking is allowed and supported by staff helping favoured regulars gain incite to what has paid or not (I know that is no guarantee but it is what it is). Staff encouraging people to gamble during a game eg: £14 drops in, telling them to gamble for spins or bigger wins. I believe this is illegal but happens every day.

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

We can see eye to eye on this. I agree with you on all of your points and there is more that can be done.

I am very disappointed that Gamstop does not apply to land based too, as it is a very powerful online tool that I fully support. There is SENSE, which is very similar for land based casinos, and MOSES for betting shops, but the latter I’ll admit I don’t know very much about. I can’t imagine it’d be effective given how little betting shops are policed. That being said, I’ve not stepped foot in one for many years now so maybe it’s more stringent? I don’t know.

ID on entry to establish KYC and police any self-exclusions seems like a reasonable solution.

As for when things go too far, this is very difficult as 1) it’s subjective and 2) most people won’t admit to spending beyond their means / being in a poor financial situation. I think perhaps staff should be able to have the authority and be encouraged to raise concerns about customers that they feel are vulnerable or at risk. This would be a start.

Of course, all of this makes things more frustrating for normal customers who play and bet recreationally with no problems. But I think that’s a small price to pay in the grand scheme.

[Seedy WANTED $1,244 Sheriff]

igc-rm wrote:

Firstly, gamstop for all betting places, virtual or not. This is 100% a must. I suspect is already on the way. Should have existed a long time ago.

Unfortunately this wont work as like all restrictive measure to help problem gamblers Gamstop is a voluntary enrollment system they already have this in self exclusion in bookies etc. Without physically taking away the individuals right to waiver any said or placed action say by a spouse etc its just not possible as it would cause all sorts of human rights acts etc.

igc-rm wrote:

I would also explain to every employee why.

I cant claim to know anything here but my assumption is that bookies etc are all trained in some way about self exclusion I dunno.

igc-rm wrote:

I would also expect EVERY betting place to fund it.

Hard to press them to fund the entire thing its like asking all pubs to fund AA etc I’m sure something could be done though.

igc-rm wrote:

Anyone who falls thru the net, gets fully supported so their children dont lose a parent, and so on. Vulnerable people should NOT be getting thru the door.

If a full infrastructure could be put in place that would work to prevent gambling then if any fully registered UK gamble company Online/Offline is at fault for letting someone play they should be held accountable. However if policing gambling is such a strict and tight way is at some point managed I think as we already see online unregistered gambling companies will pop up who is answerable then?

Lots to think about and possibly no 100% way to police.

 

[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

My apologies, just to be clear, I am calling for what casinos seem to have… pre-register with strict ID requirements. Then stringent kyc sow ideas to be looked at to follow that. Maybe even not being able to walk in with cash is a thing, just like online. Debit card withdrawals can’t be done in a gambling venue now if a person has “block gambling transactions” on their banking app. You can’t use their desk card machine or any standalone cashpoint because it is tied to a gambling venue.

Ask in any bookies now what kyc means and they will either vaguely remember or know nothing about it. If you go down a couple hundred in ladbrokes, you might get a question played as friendly chat but if you go way more down in betfred, they don’t ask anything and places like shipley and admiral have no issue with anyone blowing the lot.

I am very serious that people who can’t, shouldn’t. They can easily do this. Sure, it needs to be more complex, when it comes to kyc sow etc but currently it’s abysmal. 2021 and you can even more easily have your family life ruined by yourself or your loved one with gambling addiction. There was a lot said before about people who fall for it deserve it but we know they aren’t 100% to blame and the loved ones there of couldn’t be spoken about because it screwed up their case entirely, in regards to blaming the addict. This was never about blame, it was about prevention.

imagine : dad’s not coming home because he saw a man get two £500 jackpots and tried to replicate it to make our lives easier and put us in the soup kitchen. the imagination can run wild and still not fall far short of the reality. Thousands of times.

I am bloody glad you support this whole initiative that something better needs to be done. I am not saying any idea I have is workable or best but I truly believe it is at least heading in the right direction to make sure the kids food money doesn’t go in the slot machine.

[Seedy WANTED $1,244 Sheriff]

igc-rm wrote:

My apologies, just to be clear, I am calling for what casinos seem to have… pre-register with strict ID requirements. Then stringent kyc sow ideas to be looked at to follow that. Maybe even not being able to walk in with cash is a thing, just like online. Debit card withdrawals can’t be done in a gambling venue now if a person has “block gambling transactions” on their banking app. You can’t use their desk card machine or any standalone cashpoint because it is tied to a gambling venue.

Ask in any bookies now what kyc means and they will either vaguely remember or know nothing about it. If you go down a couple hundred in ladbrokes, you might get a question played as friendly chat but if you go way more down in betfred, they don’t ask anything and places like shipley and admiral have no issue with anyone blowing the lot.

I am very serious that people who can’t, shouldn’t. They can easily do this. Sure, it needs to be more complex, when it comes to kyc sow etc but currently it’s abysmal. 2021 and you can even more easily have your family life ruined by yourself or your loved one with gambling addiction. There was a lot said before about people who fall for it deserve it but we know they aren’t 100% to blame and the loved ones there of couldn’t be spoken about because it screwed up their case entirely, in regards to blaming the addict. This was never about blame, it was about prevention.

imagine : dad’s not coming home because he saw a man get two £500 jackpots and tried to replicate it to make our lives easier and put us in the soup kitchen. the imagination can run wild and still not fall far short of the reality. Thousands of times.

I am bloody glad you support this whole initiative that something better needs to be done. I am not saying any idea I have is workable or best but I truly believe it is at least heading in the right direction to make sure the kids food money doesn’t go in the slot machine.

I think using current method’s like KYC or SoW cant really be well implemented in a land based operation online yes it works although it doesn’t work flawlessly. I think if you can stop it at bank level meaning all land based operations sign up to an initiative that means anyone registered to block card gambling transactions is therefore not able to gamble this would however require no cash going into actual machines. Again though this would require that said person to register for the transaction to be blocked via there bank.

[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

Staff can take your money and deposit it onto a terminal. I’m not sure but I really do think KYC SOW would be pretty much exactly the same.

[trojancorpse WANTED $1 Outlaw]

The only way to implement this would be to have personal gambling licenses in order to bet anywhere. In land based gambling venues they would need have systems in place that require the scanning of said license in order to bet or logon to any terminals. This could easily be linked to the gamstop database and stop the person from playing. To prevent any circumvention though, all money would have to be loaded at the counter to prove you are the license holder.

Personally, wouldn’t be a fan of this as it would just get abused eventually by the government & UKGC.

In regards to SOW / affordability checks – if they were to go down the route that was proposed for online (not sure if it was passed to start in October) that can also lead to issues as well. I believe it was / is to be based upon a combination of your credit score and average salary in the area.

 

Rather than just restricting  the crap out of everyone, perhaps they should investigate why people became addicted in the first place. While there will be multiple reasons for it, a good start might be banning the non age restricted AWPs. I know a few people who got addicted in their early teens just from playing £5 AWPs. I know one guy, who got kicked out by his parents for stealing from them and eventually it got so bad  they called the cops on him. Ended up in prison for a year.

Another thing they should be looking at is (sorry Bandit) Online streamers / rev share affiliates. Rev share should be banned and only CPA should be allowed (possibly capped). I know people say bookies and casinos are evil for being predatory, but Rev share affiliates are just as bad or if not worse. Bookies / casinos will make money even if they operated correctly in regards to player protection, but rev share affiliates have a vested interest in you losing.

[ig igc-rm WANTED $21 Outlaw]

I wonder what doing gamstop on bookies could lead to. I mean, imagine straight membership and verification to place bets without a quandry of thought to how it works for a moment, what could it possibly lead to ? INitially I can imagine our george saying he’s not allowed can one of us who are allowed to go an place a fiver on a three legged in the 3.15 at the track. Overseen and nurtured, possibly, not a bad thing. Of course you immediately think of the person who has got thru the net enabling group pulls for banned players and such. But would it be fair to say this is better aimed at the individual than no one at all.

One things for sure, something needs to happen. The bookie/arcade/casino is a definite gamstop go-around and the damage is awful for many people every day.

[bigbucks1983 WANTED $47 Outlaw]

Bookies really frustrate me in terms of self exclusion. They refuse to do it unless you provide a photo. Few times over the years I’ve done my balls and been refused exclusion because I dont have a photo, been told to get one when I’ve literally just pissed away every penny I have.

Let’s be real, the bookies are not interested in people self excluding. If they were it would be easier to do so and an easy way to do that would be to provide each shop with a basic tablet that can take a customers photo, record their details and then be distributed to other shops and stored on a central database. This is what a lot of arcades do now and would be such an effective and easily implemented solution.

[trojancorpse WANTED $1 Outlaw]

bigbucks1983 wrote:

an easy way to do that would be to provide each shop with a basic tablet that can take a customers photo, record their details and then be distributed to other shops and stored on a central database.

William Hill already do this

[Bl Blackkbeauty WANTED $3 Outlaw]

Here we go again, wanting a nanny state .I am an adult ,I don’t want restrictions  placed upon me. I want to be treated as an adult , free to make my own decisions.I enjoy slots. I want to play whenever , wherever I choose without an identity card or having to prove anything  besides that I am over 21 and it should be over 21 not 18.

Does any adult believe that the  betting industry are not out to make profit?
As an adult do we need the help in understanding that you must take responsibility for for your actions ie don’t gamble your Kids/ rent  money , put them first?

<All these restrictions does not necessary benefit all

Maybe I am suspicious but the lowering of the RTP and lower base wins,   is the  industry attempt to claw back losses ie money spend on legislations / changes to working practices  ( nothin is free) .This has been detrimental to gamblers as they now spending more and winning less?

I enjoy gambling there are processes / restrictions that an adult can put in place to help them manage their spend or seek help etc but why punish the rest of us enjoyment !

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