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[PsychicSnail WANTED $111 Outlaw]

Here’s an interesting article on the BBC news website today concerning research into gambling addiction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-48744673

It probably doesn’t say anything that gamblers didn’t already know/suspect. But it does confirm that the addiction isn’t a matter of a “lack of willpower”. If you watch the 3 minute video it probably summarises all the writing.

[Malkychamp WANTED $486 Outlaw]

I got to the point where they said its a brain disorder then left. I would still disagree and say it is a lack of will power

[Monito WANTED $26 Outlaw]

I would also disagree. I think all addictions which lead to relapses are primarily due to a lack of willpower.

Unless of course you are forced to do it again, it’s your own willpower that leads you to relapse.

[BS BSK1 WANTED $48 Outlaw]

Addiction is because of “lack of will power”

beating the addiction is lack of will power…. !!!!

 

I’m sure other people will have their own opinions but one thing I bet we all agree on is when you’re hooked it sucks !!!! Gambling I could stop tomorrow, Drink took me a lot longer and was 1000 times harder… and incase there is any youngsters reading il leave the bit about drugs out…. Drugs are bad kids ???

[PsychicSnail WANTED $111 Outlaw]

I could easily argue both ways – so here goes.

The video suggests addiction is provoked by a change in brain chemistry. We know this also is a cause of depression. Would we say to a depressed individual “Pull yourself together, you’re just weak!”

Well of course not because we understand that the depressed person isn’t acting that way out of choice. Their brains are temporarily unbalanced. The same goes for a whole range of mental illnesses. So, if it’s true for depression, then it’s not such a stretch to say that addiction may be the same.

It may appear to be a lack of will power because the solution i.e. to hold fast and not gamble seems so obvious and tangible. Just don’t smoke, don’t drink… the same. However, if the person is not acting out of free will, and is in fact “ill”, then he has no choice and so will power isn’t a factor.

Now consider the player on “tilt”. I’ve heard and can imagine that this state is one of the hardest to walk away from. Is the tilted player in control of their behaviour? I would say not. I would say they are consumed by an uncontrollable urge and in that moment has no choice but to spunk their entire month’s pay on whatever slot has wound them up. This is the extreme end of gambling and clearly demonstrates that “will power” has very little to do with it.

[Monito WANTED $26 Outlaw]

PsychicSnail wrote:

I could easily argue both ways – so here goes.

The video suggests addiction is provoked by a change in brain chemistry. We know this also is a cause of depression. Would we say to a depressed individual “Pull yourself together, you’re just weak!”

Well of course not because we understand that the depressed person isn’t acting that way out of choice. Their brains are temporarily unbalanced. The same goes for a whole range of mental illnesses. So, if it’s true for depression, then it’s not such a stretch to say that addiction may be the same.

It may appear to be a lack of will power because the solution i.e. to hold fast and not gamble seems so obvious and tangible. Just don’t smoke, don’t drink… the same. However, if the person is not acting out of free will, and is in fact “ill”, then he has no choice and so will power isn’t a factor.

Now consider the player on “tilt”. I’ve heard and can imagine that this state is one of the hardest to walk away from. Is the tilted player in control of their behaviour? I would say not. I would say they are consumed by an uncontrollable urge and in that moment has no choice but to spunk their entire month’s pay on whatever slot has wound them up. This is the extreme end of gambling and clearly demonstrates that “will power” has very little to do with it.

Yes, I agree with the “tilt” aspect of it.  That is when the addict is under the influence of the stimuli (gambling) they are addicted to. I believe the urge is too strong and will power is irrelevant in that case.

I do, however, believe that when somebody is trying to quit their addiction and relapses after a period of time, lack of will power is always the main factor.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I acknowledge our understanding of addictions, both psychological and physiological, is incomplete. Nonetheless the available science we have across the board strongly indicates that any notion of “willpower” is little to do with it. Gambling activity has been shown to cause many of the same changes in brain chemistry as narcotic addiction and there is a good basis to believe it has at least a partially physiological cause – in contrast to say, an addiction to chocolate, or even more harmful psychological addictions like compulsive hair pulling (trichotillomania). Fundamentally, diverting to my own opinion here, I think all addictions have biochemical cause insofar as consciousness is a product of brain chemistry but even if we partition mind and matter for the sake of constructing models and understanding the mechanics of addiction, there is little doubt compulsive gambling goes beyond simple choice.

Even without the benefit of scientific research, how many of us with direct first-hand experience of this problem can testify that gambling and in particular “tilting” can seem very much like a trance-like state, where we are disconnected from reality and only acknowledge and understand the value of what we’ve lost after it’s all gone? I know I used to get like that on the FOBTs years ago, I’d describe it very much like I was just watching myself do it – quite often I’d be stuffing more notes in the machine fully aware of the fact I needed that money and actually pleading with myself inside to stop, thinking “why am I doing this?”

Why is it a great many people who know better fall in to the trap of gambling addiction? Contrary to popular belief, it is not the preserve of the lower class or less intelligent, it’s an addiction more likely to be prevalent in high earning, white collar, well educated workers.

I think the fact that if and when you do stop doing it, nothing drastic physically happens to you in say the manner of alcohol or opiate withdrawal can lead to a superficial impression that it’s “just a bad decision” and not a “real addiction”, but I can also say from my own experience it’s neither true that it’s simply a choice I made nor that stopping didn’t carry real and meaningful experience of withdrawal symptoms, they just didn’t take the form of nausea and shaking or other things which are more obvious to everyone else.

[PsychicSnail WANTED $111 Outlaw]

@Monito. Yes indeed that’s the other side of the argument. However…

If you consider that during tilt a player is out of control, what if that same chemical imbalance can strike outside of tilt, leaving them just as unable to make a rational choice.

Again consider the chronically depressed person who relapses regularly, or the alcoholic, or smoker. I smoked for years and found that after a week of abstinence, the cravings would diminish to barely more than an annoyance. But then suddenly after 2 weeks, then a month, then three months, they would come back with a vengeance. They were as bad in those moments than just minutes after the last fag.

Then consider that something about gambling may be even more compelling than smoking. Suddenly the will power argument is not clear cut.

[Monito WANTED $26 Outlaw]

PsychicSnail wrote:

@Monito. Yes indeed that’s the other side of the argument. However…

If you consider that during tilt a player is out of control, what if that same chemical imbalance can strike outside of tilt, leaving them just as unable to make a rational choice.

Again consider the chronically depressed person who relapses regularly, or the alcoholic, or smoker. I smoked for years and found that after a week of abstinence, the cravings would diminish to barely more than an annoyance. But then suddenly after 2 weeks, then a month, then three months, they would come back with a vengeance. They were as bad in those moments than just minutes after the last fag.

Then consider that something about gambling may be even more compelling than smoking. Suddenly the will power argument is not clear cut.

Yes, agreed. The whole addiction subject is extremely complexed. It took me four tries to successfully give up smoking and no attempt at quitting were the same. Other factors like stress, family, alcohol or many other things can come into the equation.

I understand what you mean, certain situations can cause mental states leaving a person unable to make a rational decision for sure.

[Eightblack WANTED $446 Outlaw]

As an addict myself I can confidently say its will power, I’m an ex drug addict but still a current piss head and a recent ex gambler and the reason I avoid drugs is because they are the worst and its will power that makes me not do it

 

the expert is clearly not an addict himself, I bet the brain fires off all kinds of shit all the time, it would look similar when your having a tug but that doesn’t mean you’re a certified nympho

[Geezawin WANTED $270 Outlaw]

Gotta say what a load of tosh .

Been depressed for as long as i can remember .and in that time i have beaten all sorts of addiction    hash / drink/ gambling/ smoking for long periods .100/% willpower . ITS ONLY AN EXCUSE .??

[Gecksy WANTED $17 Outlaw]

I’m not having there are 13 year old gambling addicts. Yeah they might spunk all their money on an arcade machine but at that age have they really developed an addiction?

They will move onto women soon enough lol

[Anonymous WANTED $483 Inactive]

100% will power. If you wanna stop you will stop. The marketing and advertising popping up on every web page you visit doesent help things. But again…its will power.

And all gambling ads should be banned. Just like smoking.

 

[thunderball6 WANTED $272 Outlaw]

Gecksy wrote:

I’m not having there are 13 year old gambling addicts. Yeah they might spunk all their money on an arcade machine but at that age have they really developed an addiction?

They will move onto women soon enough lol

Yeah would agree . Life is completely different at that age . I smoked at 13 . But was in no way addict to cigs . You look at everything different at that age .

[Green2711 WANTED $492 Outlaw]

It’s a hard topic to discuss as we still do not really understand fully how the mind works..

I would say that will power comes into it and while it’s easy to say “Yeah it’s will power, I had a problem but I wanted to quit and so I did” the problem with a statement like this is that different people have different levels of addiction and while someone might have had a problem and quit and perhaps it was challenging that still can be 100x times more challenging for someone who is a compulsive gambler for example.

Of course I believe anyone is able to quit if they truly put their minds to it, even the most severe addictions.

I have a friend who has had every addiction under the sun as he has an obsessive compulsive  personality and he has said a few times to me that kicking gambling was harder than kicking opiates and that’s a pyshical dependency.

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