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9th March 2019 at 1:40 pm #53655
I have found this ongoing debate both fascinating and humorous as in my opinion it all means jack shit.
i don’t give a shit about RTP or RNG I’ve played these things for over 20 years and if your playing them for anything else but entertainment value all be it a costly form of entertainment you are being foolish.
We all know that the odds are against us before we deposit and 99 times out of 100 your pants are left in tatters around your ankles and your eye is red roar.
if you believe they are rigged etc etc etc then the simple answer is DONT PLAY them, use your money on other forms of entertainment like hookers, drugs, cars, food,holidays.
29th March 2019 at 1:56 pm #53656P.s I’m now going down to the bookies to lose more of my money on other forms of gambling but I’m one step ahead of them this time, I’ve greased myself up prior to my visit so it won’t hurt as much ?
29th March 2019 at 2:27 pm #53657It’s actually mind boggling that the likes of Mr B and just Basics fail to understand logic and fact. Probably think the world’s flat too eh?
The bookies do this whole RTP throughout all their markets, they need a margin to make money from that’s the whole point on the business.
Let’s dumb it right down to the very very basics..
You flip a coin and it has a 50/50 chance of landing on heads or tails. The bookies arnt going to offer you odds of evens becuase then they arnt going to make any money in the long run. What they do is offer 5/6 for each outcome, therefore creating a margin to make money. Its the same principle for RTP for online slots. I know I’m wasting my time explaining but hey ho get a grip lads.
19th March 2019 at 3:07 pm #53661@izattm believe me, I’ve tried explaining how it works with the coin analogy and even that didn’t do it. I’ve broken this topic down every which way you can imagine.
@biohazard I know what you mean, but I don’t do it for the benefit of JB (don’t even see his posts anymore thanks to the ol’ BanditSnatch plugin) or Mr B (who I have nothing against, but clearly no amount of evidence or explanation will be enough to convince him), it’s more so other people reading this topics can have the insight and understanding in to how slots can be both random and have a designed RTP. I think it’s worth covering because I can appreciate why it’s a point of confusion and when you get members muddying the waters by saying things like “no, if it’s got an RTP it can’t be random”, it’s worth taking the time to explain so other people don’t read that and take away the wrong conclusions. It’s important because not understanding it leads people to dangerous fallacies like “if I keep spinning long enough, a bonus will be due and the game will force it to come in to meet its RTP”.
Also I just enjoy writing about programming and maths 🙂
19th March 2019 at 4:05 pm #53669P.s I’m now going down to the bookies to lose more of my money on other forms of gambling but I’m one step ahead of them this time, I’ve greased myself up prior to my visit so it won’t hurt as much
I’m not going down the bookies, as I am staying away until after 1 Apr as I don’t want to end up spunking cash into the roulette machine 🙂
However, like you I know its slanted in the bookies favour, of course it is, thats how they make money, and if they weren’t making money there wouldnt be gambling.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I just found this thread interesting, I would like to know however how they actually programme a slot to give a lower RTP on lower stakes and whether it makes the programming much more difficult.
9th March 2019 at 4:06 pm #53670In this whole thread there isnt a single fucking FACT! Including my own statements.
Everyone is going off what they have read somewhere. No one here is a head of a casino, or has inside knowledge on how online slots really work. So dont spout shit cos you think you know. When obviously you dont. All you have is knowledge on how an un-rigged slot “should” work in a non corrupt world.
<span style=”font-size: 1rem;”>And Pls dont say im too stupid understand something when i dont agree with you. Cos Its just rude and ignorrant. I do understand, but in all honesty i cant be arsed reading a 1000 worded reply that sounds like a robot. </span>
Im here to entertain and have a laugh.
Not to get tag teamed by a set of numpties with IQ’s slightly higher than my own.
9th March 2019 at 4:08 pm #53671In this whole thread there isnt a single fucking FACT! Including my own statements.
Everyone is going off what they have read somewhere. No one here is a head of a casino, or has inside knowledge on how online slots really work. So dont spout shit cos you think you know. When obviously you dont. All you have is knowledge on how an un-rigged slot “should” work in a non corrupt world.
<span style=”font-size: 1rem;”>And Pls dont say im too stupid understand something when i dont agree with you. Cos Its just rude and ignorrant. I do understand, but in all honesty i cant be arsed reading a 1000 worded reply that sounds like a robot. </span>
Im here to entertain and have a laugh.
Not to get tag teamed by a set of numpties with IQ’s slightly higher than my own.
To be honest I don’t understand any of the techno babble, I just know I’m going to lose most of the time.
Which makes me pretty dumb 🙂
9th March 2019 at 4:24 pm #53679In this whole thread there isnt a single fucking FACT! Including my own statements.
Everyone is going off what they have read somewhere. No one here is a head of a casino, or has inside knowledge on how online slots really work. So dont spout shit cos you think you know. When obviously you dont. All you have is knowledge on how an un-rigged slot “should” work in a non corrupt world.
<span style=”font-size: 1rem;”>And Pls dont say im too stupid understand something when i dont agree with you. Cos Its just rude and ignorrant. I do understand, but in all honesty i cant be arsed reading a 1000 worded reply that sounds like a robot. </span>
Im here to entertain and have a laugh.
Not to get tag teamed by a set of numpties with IQ’s slightly higher than my own.
Well said that man, nobody knows jack shit, gambling is the most corrupt organisation out there, always will be.??
19th March 2019 at 4:34 pm #53683I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I just found this thread interesting, I would like to know however how they actually programme a slot to give a lower RTP on lower stakes and whether it makes the programming much more difficult.
Online slots generally don’t have a lower RTP for lower stake, that’s more common on FOBTs. But to answer your question: you give the slot a slightly different reel set to nudge the RTP up or down, thus making winning combinations more or less likely to land. Nothing more complicated than that. Edit: Just because I would like to avoid any accusations of being disingenuous, this is not the ONLY technical way to adjust the RTP on a game, it’s just a common way. Slots are not required to operate by picking a random stop position for each reel, some – as we’ve seen with Jamming Jars – can operate more in a manner akin to scratchcards where there is simply a defined win or lose outcome picked at random. The exact mechanics are not prescribed by regulator rules, but the random outcome part is (for games which fall in to those categories).
nobody knows jack shit, gambling is the most corrupt organisation out there, always will be
We do know, though – this stuff isn’t a matter of opinion, in the UK it’s stringently regulated and you can read the policies and procedures laid down by the regulator yourself, it’s public domain information. All slots have to be approved by an independent test house and have their code audited to ensure they are fair and random and their outcomes correspond to their published claims in respect of things like RTP. These checks are carried out on every game. The Gambling Commission can and have come down very heavily on vendors who have been found in breach of their rules, with massive fines.
9th March 2019 at 4:48 pm #53688I can actually see where the confusion arises here. RTP is based on adding in non winning results. For example, flipping a coin and calling heads or tails means you have an RTP of 50%, but it is not rigged in the sense the coin does not trend for the losing result. Transfer this logic to slots and it means that each spin is like tossing a million coins in one go, there is so many outcomes that are randomly generated.
Some people need to understand that gambling is a business or industry, and thus needs to yield profits. Through the design of games with losing outcomes, they can take their bite of apple.
9th March 2019 at 4:53 pm #53691I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I just found this thread interesting, I would like to know however how they actually programme a slot to give a lower RTP on lower stakes and whether it makes the programming much more difficult.
Online slots generally don’t have a lower RTP for lower stake, that’s more common on FOBTs. But to answer your question: you give the slot a slightly different reel set to nudge the RTP up or down, thus making winning combinations more or less likely to land. Nothing more complicated than that. Edit: Just because I would like to avoid any accusations of being disingenuous, this is not the ONLY technical way to adjust the RTP on a game, it’s just a common way. Slots are not required to operate by picking a random stop position for each reel, some – as we’ve seen with Jamming Jars – can operate more in a manner akin to scratchcards where there is simply a defined win or lose outcome picked at random. The exact mechanics are not prescribed by regulator rules, but the random outcome part is (for games which fall in to those categories).
nobody knows jack shit, gambling is the most corrupt organisation out there, always will be
We do know, though – this stuff isn’t a matter of opinion, in the UK it’s stringently regulated and you can read the policies and procedures laid down by the regulator yourself, it’s public domain information. All slots have to be approved by an independent test house and have their code audited to ensure they are fair and random and their outcomes correspond to their published claims in respect of things like RTP. These checks are carried out on every game. The Gambling Commission can and have come down very heavily on vendors who have been found in breach of their rules, with massive fines.
Yawn yawn yawn….fucking HYPER YAWN!
I know you are reading my comments Argyl so stop pretending your not. Lol
You keep putting things like laws and “gambling commissions” and other stuff. Saying that these companys moderate the casinos so they are 100% legit.
Cmon man have u never heard of a back hander? Cmon mate…. I mean cmooooon! Are u completely blinded by your own sheepishness?
Pls for the love of god…
Stop believing that casinos slash gambling commissions are all roses and daisy bows.
Its all a big con. I dont really care that they do it. Cos id probably do the same. But you constantly Saying that its all above board really wets my apetite for berating you!
9th March 2019 at 4:59 pm #53694Going to have to confess that I wouldn’t trust the gambling commission as far as I could throw them. If there is one thing I have learned in life its that money corrupts.
The casino’s have a lot of money, the people working at the gambling commission don’t have a lot of money and I have no doubt they have regular meetings.
I’m not saying there is anything untoward going on, but I am pretty sure there is scope for it as in every walk of life. Especially in an organisation which is actually funded by charges from the organisations it is supposed to be policing
9th March 2019 at 5:01 pm #53697Going to have to confess that I wouldn’t trust the gambling commission as far as I could throw them. If there is one thing I have learned in life its that money corrupts.
The casino’s have a lot of money, the people working at the gambling commission don’t have a lot of money and I have no doubt they have regular meetings.
I’m not saying there is anything untoward going on, but I am pretty sure there is scope for it as in every walk of life. Especially in an organisation which is actually funded by charges from the organisations it is supposed to be policing
Yeah what he said!
Elequantly put mate.
9th March 2019 at 5:04 pm #53698Going to have to confess that I wouldn’t trust the gambling commission as far as I could throw them. If there is one thing I have learned in life its that money corrupts.
The casino’s have a lot of money, the people working at the gambling commission don’t have a lot of money and I have no doubt they have regular meetings.
I’m not saying there is anything untoward going on, but I am pretty sure there is scope for it as in every walk of life. Especially in an organisation which is actually funded by charges from the organisations it is supposed to be policing
So how do you reconcile that with the multi-million pound fines levied on 888, Daub Alderney, Casumo and VideoSlots – not to mention the revocation of a couple of licences for breaching rules? Clearly the GC are enforcing their rules.
9th March 2019 at 5:07 pm #53700 -
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