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3rd June 2019 at 12:37 pm #67894
People can say what they want, but when it comes to computer code, there’s no such thing as randomness. There’s always a pre-programmed amount of winning combinations, and a set amount of times any X win will happen across X amount of spins. Just look at “The curious case of the Jammin Jars” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc53rrmxz34&t=483s
The explanation from the developers for this case is that there are 1.3 million different sequences on Jammin Jars etc.
Computer code and casinos never leave anything to chance – In the end it’s all controlled.Sorry but this is plain wrong. The randomness employed by software may not be true random in a Turing machine sense, but it is secure random, giving results which are statistically random. In other words, it’s true random in every practical sense (and this is very easy to prove in simulation).
Jammin Jars is known to operate more like a virtual scratch card where there are set sequences and the result of your spin, although random, can therefore have a pre-determined visual playout, but this is actually very unusual for an online slot. Most of them work by having a reelset where on each spin, a random stop position is chosen for each reel and the RTP / result probabilities are determined solely by the layout of the reelset.
Believe me, this is a subject I know a lot about. It is emphatically not correct to say that on a game like Book of Dead, it is “programmed to bring in a jackpot screen once every X thousand spins”. The outcome is entirely random and the game has been designed so the probability of a jackpot screen occurring amounts to a statistical expectation it would only occur once every X thousand spins. But there is no “pot” that fake big wins from the likes of Roshtein are removing money from, that’s just not how it works.
13rd June 2019 at 12:37 pm #67896Yeah that’s not how RTP works. There is no ‘pot’ where RTP is taken from. The figure is purely theoretical. Think of roulette where you get a 35/1 payout but the true payout is 36/1. Slots work on the same basis but just with millions more combinations and associated odds for hitting each every time you hit spin.
If you hit a jackpot then your odds of hitting it on the next spin again are exactly the same.
If Roshtein was getting 300% sticky bonuses on £2k deposits with no cap or max bet then doubt that is insanely profitable (and likely far too profitable for it to be offered). Running through a sim with £50 spins suggests an expected value of around £1700 profit.
3rd June 2019 at 12:39 pm #678973rd June 2019 at 12:43 pm #67898Don’t mind the guy watched him afew times to pass the time. Set up as well as any pro streamer could be with a decent production. As for real or fake money couldn’t really care less makes no difference to me ?
3rd June 2019 at 1:16 pm #67903Yeah that’s not how RTP works. There is no ‘pot’ where RTP is taken from. The figure is purely theoretical. Think of roulette where you get a 35/1 payout but the true payout is 36/1. Slots work on the same basis but just with millions more combinations and associated odds for hitting each every time you hit spin.
If you hit a jackpot then your odds of hitting it on the next spin again are exactly the same.
If Roshtein was getting 300% sticky bonuses on £2k deposits with no cap or max bet then doubt that is insanely profitable (and likely far too profitable for it to be offered). Running through a sim with £50 spins suggests an expected value of around £1700 profit.
No, there is actually no such thing as true randomness in code. It’s impossible to achieve true randomness in something man made. So no, dumbass, you’re not getting to walk away with this bullshit.
I recommend people read this, so you get to understand that there is no such thing as true randomness in man made computer code.
Check mate, morons3rd June 2019 at 1:23 pm #67905@awesomex no need for the silly name calling make your point in a civilised manner same as 32red and argyl or just walk away from the keyboard if you cant manage it!
13rd June 2019 at 1:26 pm #67910Hi,
First, let me introduce myself for those who don’t know me; I’m Asle Martinsen, a long time moderator for CasinoDaddy and CasinoGrounds. I have been a moderator on YouTube for 3 years now, and have had a close eye on the YouTube/Twitch gambling streamers. Through my years of experience I’ve become friends with a lot of streamers and regulars in the community, and I talk to many very frequently.
Now, let’s get on to Roshtein. Someone I moderate for (I don’t wanna reveal his name) has an employee who works on their behalf to set up affiliate deals with new casinos. This person has showed me screenshots from a conversation between him and Roshtein, as well as screenshots of conversations between the casinos Roshtein represent and himself (the employee). Here is one screenshot between a casino affiliate manager who contacted a representative for one of the streamers I moderate for:
Just the fact the casino affiliate manager was the one who made contact says a lot. They don’t go out looking for affiliates – affiliates contact the casinos. That’s the normal procedure.
Through conversations with reliable people, I have learned that Roshtein has operated with a deal where only 5% of the money he plays with is actually his, and he also has a max cashout of something like 5x the deposit amount. Meaning if it says Roshtein deposited €2000 with a 300% bonus (€8000 starting balance), he actually only deposited €100, and has a max cashout of €500. And that’s only with some casinos. With others he has another deal, where he plays exclusively with demo accounts. I know for a fact he’s got a very rigged deal specifically with N1 casino, where he puts absolutely no money down for any of his “deposits”.
The fucked up thing here is that when Roshtein hits tons of big wins, it takes a certain amount “out of the pot” (RTP), and since he keeps doing this over and over and over, without it being legitimate money, and he wins such huge amounts, these are potential wins taken out of the pot from other players. If he keeps playing €50 euro spins with the casino’s money and wins €100,000, that €100,000 is then out of the ~96% RTP “pot”. As you know, a certain “jackpot” hit combination, like 5 explorers on book of dead for example, is programmed to come only x amount of times per x amount of spins. Well, his hits takes tons of these out of the pot for regular players. RTP is of course calculated over like a few billion spins, but let’s look at how that actually works out: A huge majority of players spin at less than €1 stake. Most are probably at min stake, so let’s say 0.20 stake. €100,000 is the equivalent of 500,000 losing spins on 0.20 stake. Then imagine you do a €50 deposit at 0.20 stake, which is 250 times your stake. The math and logic is simple if you look at it this way.There is a reason why nobody in the affiliate industry wants to be affiliated with Roshtein. Yes, he has a lot of viewers, but that’s cus he’s good at faking it.
If you go to youtube and look for the video where Slotspinner hits a 5 of a kind explorer on Book of Dead, notice his reaction and how he says “Is it ten-thousand?” – Then go look at Roshtein’s reaction at a later date, where he straight up copies Slotspinner’s reaction with a “Is it three-thousand?”. These two videos was like 3 months apart, with Roshtein’s being the later one.It’s so blatantly obvious he’s just copying the best reactions from other streamers. And as he’s a good actor, he’s making a lot of naive people believe he’s legit.
Here’s another secret: When there are get-togethers for all the casino affiliates from all the various casinos, NOBODY wants to be seen with Roshtein, cus nobody likes him. The reason behind that is that he’s misrepresenting the industry, and shows people that carelessness pays off – just what someone scamming you wants you to think.
He also promoted casinos that gave a 400% deposit bonus, which is the model used by casinos who don’t have any of the regular providers, who nobody really knows about, and just come off as dodgy with a chat popup before you’ve even created an account, telling you about a “special offer” where you can deposit thousands and get 400% on top of that, which anyone can see is bullshit, as if a legit casino did this, it would be like handing out money for free. The casino industry does not hand out money for nothing, let me assure you of that.I would love for eejit to come into this chat and make a comment about Roshtein as well, as everyone here knows eejit knows quite a lot about the industry. He can let you know what the casinos Roshtein works for are like.
I just had a look through the casinos Roshtein promotes, and here they are:
N1 Casino (mentioned above).
Ladyhammer (curacao casino, no MGA or UKGC license).I can’t find more right now, but let’s talk about these two, and ask yourself these questions:
Have you ever seen these casinos before? Do any of the streamers you trust play there? Why do you think Roshtein is the only streamer to play at these casinos?If you’re dumb enough to play at the casinos Roshtein promotes, don’t come crying on this forum when you don’t get your money due to some dodgy terms, or just a straight up bullshit casino.
Some really interesting points here – thank you,
Is there anyone else you can name and shame?
One point though – your comments on RTP are mistaken – if the games are truly random as advertised – the odds of winning are not changed by anyone hitting it big, every spin should have exactly the same likelihood of hitting big, in fact – you could have back to back jackpots as a random game can do anything. (A good thing really – otherwise no one would be able to touch Reel King as it a cash machine for the Bandit!)
CasinoRobot was another one who used to play with fake money. He was revealed to have a fake account cus he fucked up on stream, for everyone to see.
People can say what they want, but when it comes to computer code, there’s no such thing as randomness. There’s always a pre-programmed amount of winning combinations, and a set amount of times any X win will happen across X amount of spins. Just look at “The curious case of the Jammin Jars” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc53rrmxz34&t=483s
The explanation from the developers for this case is that there are 1.3 million different sequences on Jammin Jars etc.
Computer code and casinos never leave anything to chance – In the end it’s all controlled.I’m not fussed about Roshtein, but I wanted to address your comments on the technology, because you’re completely wrong here 🙂
There is plenty of randomness in computer code if you want it to be there. Sure, code always does what you tell it,but if you feed a random number in to code, a random result will come out the other end.
Also, there is no ‘pot’ of results as such. Not in the way that when a result is won it is removed. In the case of Jammin Jars, they use a pool of possible results but, as your video proves, someone winning doesn’t mean someone else can’t. If there are 1.3 million different possible results, then every spin, you have a 1 in 1.3 million chance of hitting any one of them. So it is random. That pool of results will, of course, be weighted in such a way that there are more losing results than winning, but your chance of hitting any one of them is random.
With normal slots, there is no ‘pool’. The game is set up with reels, symbols, payouts etc and then the RNG returns 1 number for each reel (the stop position). Where the reels stop determines the result.
As for RTP, it is not something that is ‘set’ or ‘targeted’. It is determined by the math model of the slot. The way the reels, symbols, payout values etc are set generate an RTP. You simulate a slot (or do the maths) to determine what this number is. Designing a good slot means balancing a good RTP (96-98%) with fun play, and to do this, you have to do many tweaks and changes to the setup before you get it right.
*edited Seedy dont go advertising your channel directly in someone else forum most importantly you didnt even ask… If you want people to find your videos then by all means say what you youtube channel is called so people can go search it for themselves if they would like.*
3rd June 2019 at 1:30 pm #679153rd June 2019 at 1:33 pm #67917Where’s jb ? He’s going to love this ha ha.
JB only appears in threads “randomly” ?
23rd June 2019 at 1:39 pm #67918Yeah that’s not how RTP works. There is no ‘pot’ where RTP is taken from. The figure is purely theoretical. Think of roulette where you get a 35/1 payout but the true payout is 36/1. Slots work on the same basis but just with millions more combinations and associated odds for hitting each every time you hit spin.
If you hit a jackpot then your odds of hitting it on the next spin again are exactly the same.
If Roshtein was getting 300% sticky bonuses on £2k deposits with no cap or max bet then doubt that is insanely profitable (and likely far too profitable for it to be offered). Running through a sim with £50 spins suggests an expected value of around £1700 profit.
No, there is actually no such thing as true randomness in code. It’s impossible to achieve true randomness in something man made. So no, dumbass, you’re not getting to walk away with this bullshit. I recommend people read this, so you get to understand that there is no such thing as true randomness in man made computer code.
<iframe class=”wp-embedded-content” style=”position: absolute; clip: rect(1px, 1px, 1px, 1px);” title=”“Can a computer generate a truly random number?” — MIT School of Engineering” src=”https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask-an-engineer/can-a-computer-generate-a-truly-random-number/embed/#?secret=j2zAwySIZq” width=”600″ height=”338″ frameborder=”0″ marginwidth=”0″ marginheight=”0″ scrolling=”no” sandbox=”allow-scripts” data-secret=”j2zAwySIZq”></iframe>
Check mate, moronsNo, it can’t, but for the purposes of slots it is ‘random enough’. Typically using a hardware RNG to ‘seed’ the software RNG at intervals to ensure no pattern occurs.
Regardless of whether it is ‘truely’ random or ‘random enough’ makes no practical difference to the implementation of slots. It doesn’t make them ‘rigged’ or ‘set’. From every perspective, they are still acceptably fully random.
3rd June 2019 at 1:44 pm #67920Just noticed my video links got removed. Sorry, they were informational videos (I wasn’t advertising the channel) but appreciate the rules.
So if you are interested to know more detail behind how slots are made, please have a look on my channel on YouTube called ‘The Reel Story’. I have a playlist there called ‘How Slots Work’ that contains 2 videos. One on the basics of slots and another explaining how RTP works.
3rd June 2019 at 1:46 pm #67921No, there is actually no such thing as true randomness in code. It’s impossible to achieve true randomness in something man made. So no, dumbass, you’re not getting to walk away with this bullshit.
I recommend people read this, so you get to understand that there is no such thing as true randomness in man made computer code.I recommend people read the link you posted too, because it completely falsifies your claim that online gambling isn’t random.
Not all randomness is pseudo, however, says Ward. There are ways that machines can generate truly random numbers. And the importance of true randomness is not to be underestimated, he adds. “If you go to an online poker site, for example, and you know the algorithm and seed, you can write a program that will predict the cards that are going to be dealt.” Truly random numbers make such reverse engineering impossible, he adds. There are devices that generate numbers that claim to be truly random. They rely on unpredictable processes like thermal or atmospheric noise rather than human-defined patterns.
As I said in my previous post, that computers are not truly random in a Turing machine sense is irrelevant to this discussion. Hardware or software based cryptographically secure pseudo random number generators produce results which are statistically indistinguishable from true random and cannot be manipulated or predicted in advance, even with knowledge of the algorithm used. Thus any differentiation between a CSPRNG output and “true random” is purely academic and does not impact either probability or distribution of results, regardless of sample size.
So yeah, it is checkmate, you were just calling it for me.
13rd June 2019 at 1:49 pm #67922@TheReelStory its all good its a case of if one gets to post there channel next minute i am flooded with loads all over the place 🙂
13rd June 2019 at 2:07 pm #67929If there was such a thing as true randomness, you could end up winning the jackpot/highest payout 10 spins in a row at max stake, and if that was possible, a casino could go bankrupt over 10 spins on a slot machine.
True randomness is the only thing that is random. “Random enough” means it’s not really random, which means there are certain parameters set that prevents payouts to be too big.Example: BTG says their slots can have a set max payout on any given spin/sequence, and it’s different from casino to casino. How do you take this into randomness? The answer is: You can’t.
Slot code HAS to be programmed so you can only get certain combinations x amount of times over x amount of spins. Without it, there is no way to guarantee a profitable slot, or even guarantee the RTP.
3rd June 2019 at 2:13 pm #67932If there was such a thing as true randomness, you could end up winning the jackpot/highest payout 10 spins in a row at max stake, and if that was possible, a casino could go bankrupt over 10 spins on a slot machine. True randomness is the only thing that is random. “Random enough” means it’s not really random, which means there are certain parameters set that prevents payouts to be too big.
Example: BTG says their slots can have a set max payout on any given spin/sequence, and it’s different from casino to casino. How do you take this into randomness? The answer is: You can’t.
Slot code HAS to be programmed so you can only get certain combinations x amount of times over x amount of spins. Without it, there is no way to guarantee a profitable slot, or even guarantee the RTP.
Again, you couldn’t be more wrong.
The randomness doesn’t matter. It is 100% possible for the highest payout to get hit 10 spins in a row. Totally possible. However, the odds are ASTRONIMICALLY tiny, so it’s not a real risk. Add to this that Casino’s put in Max Stake and Max Win limits for exactly this reason, to limit their exposure. Having an upper limit on something doesn’t mean it’s not random. Just means you cap the win.
For the BTG thing, yes, Casino’s can set a max win cap for games. This is pretty standard. So the slot might pay £1,000,000 but you’ll only actually win £5,000 (or whatever the cap is set at).
Slot code does NOT have to be set that way, at all. It’s all based on probability. If you build a slot with a mathematical model that produces an RTP of < 100%, then the slot is profitable. Maybe not profitable all the time. There might be days or months when it makes a loss (i’ve seen this many times) however, over its life, it will be profitable.
You are correct on one thing, the RTP is not a guarantee. Casino’s take a small bit of short term risk on any type of gambling (people can win big). However, in the long term, their risk is very, very small because the maths is always in their favour.
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