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[Be BeMyAngel WANTED $6 Blocked]

Does it make a difference if they change the RTP over a small number of spins?

YES it does. The CLT asks for 30 data points to approximate the normal distribution – on average you will feel the RTP change after 30-40 spins on a single slot

CLT = Central Limit Theorem and is a cornerstone of statistics and probability distributions (the math of slots)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem#Convergence_to_the_limit

While wikipedia doesn’t mention minimum thresholds, investopedia does:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/central_limit_theorem.asp

KEY TAKEAWAYS:-

1) The central limit theorem (CLT) states that the distribution of sample means approximates a normal distribution as the sample size gets larger.
2) Sample sizes equal to or greater than 30 are considered sufficient for the CLT to hold.
3) A key aspect of CLT is that the average of the sample means and standard deviations will equal the population mean and standard deviation.
4) A sufficiently large sample size can predict the characteristics of a population accurately

If you are familiar with slots and make 30-40 + spins on a slot with a reduced RTP, you will notice the effects of the RTP change over that number of spins, on average. You don’t have to play 1 million or 3 billion spins or anything like that because you already know the distribution characteristics of the slot (RTP, av spin per bonus, density of wins in base game etc). If you understand points 3) & 4) from above you understand CLT governs everything about a slot machine. If you were trying to calculate the RTP of a slot and didn’t know anything about it (RTP could be 0-10000000%), then yes you need to play a monster sample to get accurate results. That’s how the developers test their models, by running trillions of spins to make sure the models are accurate. It’s usually a licensing requirement or insurance for casinos. But you DO NOT have to do trillions of spins to notice a difference if you already know the distribution characteristics. From a small sample you can feel the difference between the known characteristics and what the actual results are.

TheBandit is perhaps unintentionally deceiving viewers by stating that RTP doesn’t matter to someone not playing a huge sample of spins. That is FALSE. The RTP over 1 spin or 10 spins doesn’t make much of a difference but over 30-40 spins +, which will be achieved by the vast majority of players, the RTP makes a difference

I don’t like VideoSlots but other sites with higher RTPs claw back the RTP in other ways. Some sites charge for deposits and withdrawals. Some charge currency conversion fees. Some take forever to process withdrawals. Some sites give no bonuses or cashback or other rewards. If you are comparing VideoSlots to another site based solely on RTP, it depends what % you are getting in perks, because 1-5% would put the RTP including all variables on a given slot at a given casino above or below the RTP from a different casino, which perhaps has a higher raw RTP on the same slot but different rewards. Overall though fuck videoslots, they ran the higher RTP forever and made money hand over fist, then reduced the RTP to squeeze even more juice from players. Any players out there feel the RTP on slots is too high????????

 

[The Bandit WANTED $5,395 El Bandito]

Sorry, did you just say that RTP makes a difference over 30 – 40 spins? Just so i’m clear on that? Madness.

 

I actually said, if you are arsed about RTP then don’t play the reduced ones on Videoslots, i’m personally not bothered. Not sure which part of that is misleading. 30 – 40 spins, wow, can’t get my head round that one. First and last post for me in this one lol.

[Be BeMyAngel WANTED $6 Blocked]

That’s fine but it’s not my opinion – if you read the links you will see it’s pretty easy to understand

IF you already know the characteristics of the distribution, then yes quite obviously you can take a sample (play a slot) and see how that compares to expectations. Then if you take a sufficiently large sample (trillions of spins) you will know everything about the distribution. Still with me? Good mate. Now the maths just happens to work out that a sample size of 30-40 spins is enough to approximate the normal distribution (the characteristics of the slot)

Just FYI you make videos shilling for casinos and I’m a quant (physics + finance).  Fuck me. Talk about ignorant. I give you the theory and the facts and you call me full of shit. FAKE NEWS lolol

Want an example maybe you can get your tiny brain around?

Take 40 random people on the street and ask them what shoe size they are and what height they are. Try this in forum if you think you are right and I am wrong. Then compare those 40 random results with the known characteristics of the distribution (the stats from the UK population for height and shoe size). Again wow, you will see your sample of a random 40 matches the normal distribution of millions of people! How is this possible? Black magic? No it’s just relatively simple maths, a Gaussian or normal distribution, same as a slot machine!!!

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $706 Outlaw]

Yeah sorry man, I know your not looking for people to chime in on this but I have to agree with bandit all the way , I still play At videoslots and I play those games with the lower rtp , because I’m nit a rtp checker, I just play to piss about. if a games enjoyable then I play, there are a few 96- 97% Ish games that are total wank, and I still find  the wins and the bonuses at videoslots in those games , so I don’t believe the lower rtp is something I’ve felt in my gaming ..equally the weekend boosters and the wheel, it’s gen a good casino ….. is it good pr to do what they do ? No probably not , but I think they  offer enough extras to make them stand out …..

[Be BeMyAngel WANTED $6 Blocked]

And just to add to the above example – From a random sample of 40 you won’t get the person in the UK with the smallest feet or the tallest man in the UK, just like you won’t get the most extreme results on a slot machine out of a random 40 spins (unless mega lucky), but the shape of the graph, the peak and the tails that make a normal distribution, will become clear.

You annoyed me enough with your comments in the video but your condescendence here towards the evidence and universal maths is staggering.

[Be BeMyAngel WANTED $6 Blocked]

@seyahkram1977 – I discussed a bit of that at the end of my OP

It doesn’t surprise me you agree with Bandit or that most people will agree with Bandit. What use is maths and science in the face of celebrity?

I’ve given you guys the theory and the facts, which are not disputed amongst statisticians, casinos and those who designed the slot machines. If you want to have your own opinions, that’s fine, I can’t argue with people who disagree with maths. I’m not gonna reply any more

 

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I honestly don’t think you even need to understand anything about maths, certainly not anything as complex as probability theory, limits, statistics, calculus or whatever else, just to understand that obviously you’re better off playing a 96% version of a slot over a 92% version. I mean, that’s so obvious it shouldn’t even need saying let alone be the subject of debate. If a slot’s RTP is reduced, it doesn’t matter whether you play one spin, 30 spins or a million spins; in all cases, your chance of winning across any sized set of spins has been reduced because that’s literally what the RTP being cut means. If Video Slots had announced it as “we’ve cut the chance of you winning on Book of Dead”, would people be sitting here going “so guys, can we fiercely debate whether or not this means they’ve cut the chance of winning on Book of Dead?”

[Be BeMyAngel WANTED $6 Blocked]

@argyl53 – thank you, a sensible comment. The point I’m making is that to notice the difference between 96% and 92% RTP you only have to play about 40 spins, statistically.

TheBandit broadcast to thousands of people that it makes no difference at all unless playing a large sample. That is FALSE and people playing those games should know the truth. After 40 spins you are losing money compared to a higher RTP version of the same slot. I’m angry that 2/3 people disagree with that, like wtaf? You disagree with maths? LOL

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

BeMyAngel wrote:

@argyl53 – thank you, a sensible comment. The point I’m making is that to notice the difference between 96% and 92% RTP you only have to play about 40 spins, statistically.

TheBandit broadcast to thousands of people that it makes no difference at all unless playing a large sample. That is FALSE and people playing those games should know the truth. After 40 spins you are losing money compared to a higher RTP version of the same slot. I’m angry that 2/3 people disagree with that, like wtaf? You disagree with maths? LOL

Right so I’ve just watched today’s video and yeah there’s a bit where Steve says he’s played a Play n Go game with a lower RTP and it didn’t matter because it still bonused within about five spins.

Well sure, the RTP could be reduced to 1% and a game might still give you a decent bonus on your very first spin, the point is it’s a lot less likely to do that on a lower RTP.

I honestly don’t get why this is even a thing people are arguing about. If you place a bet on me rolling a die and you win if the result is a 1, 2 or 3 and I then suddenly switch it for a die with 8 sides instead of 6, no one would sit there and go “oh well it doesn’t matter so long as I only have one or two rolls instead of a million, I won’t notice the difference” – of course it fucking matters, it obviously matters, because your chance of winning has been substantially reduced. It’s exactly the same if a slot’s RTP is lowered, your chance of winning on any given spin has just dropped. There’s nothing that’s open to debate or opinion there.

[Anonymous WANTED $110 Inactive]

I start abet to get worried on videoslots last 4 deposit lost all, when on Calzon casino and Rizk casino got a 4-5 big win. for me losing £800-£1000 on videoslot on 1-2 days not good..not sure if it is rtp or bad luck… I play Calzon Rizk and noviebet casinos on past 2-3 weeks none of casinos have slots and support as Videoslots have, Novibet has lots of games but all-time problem games keep get a crush to reload all time, also they have lots of updates when updates happen impossible to play

you can check you rtp on every single game on videoslots

[Anonymous WANTED $110 Inactive]

looks like when you spin a lot same game you can see rtp not much on low bets but players like Bandit £40 a bet or £5 a bet will make a lot of different, on 0.40 bet is 0.05 more each spin even i got £236 win how much will be on £40 bet lol

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $706 Outlaw]

Holly fuck  could the condescension be any more?????  So whilst I get you blanket and a biscuit to calm You down, I was not  disagreeing with you in your maths, thats not even what I wrote , but  before you chipped a nail , you said “fuck videoslots “ and I said “I agreed with the bandit that the extras make the casino more attractive”  even with the small amount of games with a lower rtp,  and in my opinion so far I haven’t felt the games play against me that way ….I don’t FEEL that certain games have been easier or harder to bonus, why do I FEEL that way ? its because most of the new reduced rtp games were already monsters to bonus…

take bonanza( for example) even if they dropped the rtp , would I recognise or FEEL that the bonus was harder in a game that could take 1000 spin to bonus anyways? so it doesn’t FEEL that way and that’s a legitimate way of FEELING based on your words below

“if you already know the distribution characteristics. From a small sample you can feel the difference between the known characteristics and what the actual results are.”

so not sure why(when in your bit above , you say people can feel the changes or recognise them ) when I say I haven’t felt those shifts , I’m a being a twat and burning maths with all the witches ???????

So I’m not disagreeing with your maths or what ever else has you flabbergasted, ( ps well done we appreciate the essay) , I was suggesting that  even with omission of a small amount of games with a lower rtp from your playing favourites and with the positives of the wheel and weekend boost it still makes the casino worth visiting

now wait a second whilst I get the nails to crucify me to my university maths books ….and then it’ll be my midnight bandit candlelight vigial

fuck me

 

[Malkychamp WANTED $486 Outlaw]

Starting to think some people just watch the vids to find things to bloody whine about. Why is it so hard to believe that some of us don’t care about RTP or the maths behind it

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $706 Outlaw]

Malkychamp wrote:

Starting to think some people just watch the vids to find things to bloody whine about. Why is it so hard to believe that some of us don’t care about RTP or the maths behind it

Amen

[Anonymous WANTED $0 Inactive]

Am I missing something.  Surely it’s the game provider that tweaks the RTP, not the casino site that has that game?  If a certain game has had its RTP lowered to say 94% then the RTP of that game will be 94% on whatever casino site you play it on?

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