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[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Sorry to see you go mate. That you’ve had begging and even a threat by email is absolutely disgusting.

In respect of the forum content, in my thread I just want to say I didn’t ask for it to be bumped, I was very careful in all my replies today to keep it on topic, be respectful of people and not target individuals. I made one post telling one person, politely, that due to their previous behaviour towards me I wasn’t willing to read their posts or interact with them any more and left it at that. All other replies were purely about the subject matter.  If anyone at all on this forum feels they’re getting agro from another member, I am happy to supply them a copy of the Chrome plugin I wrote to filter out posts by username.

Whatever you do in future, thanks for all you’ve done here and I wish you the best.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

The moon landing was fake?    Noooooooooooooo

Haha, my point is if someone can present any evidence whatsoever to support a claim that the Gambling Commission and approved test houses are allowing rigged games, or games that aren’t entirely random to go through and be played by the public, I’ll cheerfully eat my words. But so far none has been forthcoming.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I’m sorry but you can’t have it both ways – in one breath you are saying there is no corruption or rule breaking in the industry as they make enough money in any case.   And in the next breath you are arguing that they have been caught breaching rules.

I’m not disputing the fact that the gambling commission have hit back at a number of casino’s, I am merely alluding to the fact that we don’t know what goes on under the radar, and I stand by my decision to mistrust any industry where this amount of money is being bandied around

None of them were fined for rigging games, they were fined for inadequately protecting problem customers and a couple of other similar reasons. So there’s no contradiction there with what I’ve been saying. You can of course believe the Gambling Commission are taking bribes or whatever to allow rigging to take place, forging audit reports and the independent test houses are all in on it too – but now we’re back to “the moon landing was all a fake” type conspiracy theories which lie somewhere between having zero evidence to support them and being actively contradicted by available evidence.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Eightblack wrote:

Everyone has an opinion, they’re obviously bent in the casinos favour otherwise they’d be gamblers too, which would would not be a viable business model.. At all, roullete pays 35/1 but you place 36/1 zero is the edge

 

Blocking just Basics’ comments from your screen and calling him unintelligent w<span style=”font-size: 1rem;”>hile in the same breath slating him for insulting people is fucking moronic.. Debate with respect or argue like kids but don’t pull some high ground shit because you know JB has a history here, that makes you a dick. </span>

I haven’t called him unintelligent, I haven’t interacted with him at all other than one post to let him know there’s no point directing anything my way now because I’ll no longer see it. I’ve blocked him from appearing on my screen because he’s had a strong habit of repeatedly abusing me with homophobic insults, as well as called me a c**t, a p***y and all sorts of other names while refusing to debate or address any of the subject matter I’ve ever made on the subject of gambling. Entirely within my rights to decide I’ve had enough of that, mate.

May I please urge everyone in this thread to keep it friendly and respectful, because I put some effort in to the original post, the code, the mathematical explanations and I don’t want Steve getting pissed off at everyone and deleting it.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Mr B wrote:

I’m not surprised bandits forum has pro industry voices here JB but I have this vision of bandits pub do getting out of hand and I think that is more likely than some chancers coming to ruin it.. Someone has to try and protect +£14 billion (2017) industry. It’s not like the law and gambling commission are being dragged in here kicking and screaming when people point out the obvious.

The upsetting words for them : “controlled random”. That’s all.

EDIT : Nothing I have said on this subject is a reflection on Bandit, Seedy or BIAM. There must be a thousand times and more that Bandit has shown he has the same belief as us.

I can safely tell you I have zero connection to the gambling industry, not am I “pro gambling industry”. I am however pro honesty and that means sometimes accepting facts regardless of whether or not I want them to be true. I’d love to believe that all the times I lost loads of money on live roulette it’s because they’re using magnets or otherwise in some way cheating me, because it’d be easier to accept than the truth which is I’m just unlucky and have poor self control. Slots and other forms of gambling aren’t rigged because they simply don’t have to be to yield a good long term profit for the vendors and casinos.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Mr B wrote:

Hey, I’m intrigued to know how a user is blocked without access to the protected SQL.

Browser extension, it’s just a few lines of JavaScript. Doesn’t block a user from the forum or anyone else, just my screen. The core of it is this BanditSnatch code

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Dune2000 wrote:

Going to have to confess that I wouldn’t trust the gambling commission as far as I could throw them.  If there is one thing I have learned in life its that money corrupts.

The casino’s have a lot of money, the people working at the gambling commission don’t have a lot of money and I have no doubt they have regular meetings.

I’m not saying there is anything untoward going on, but I am pretty sure there is scope for it as in every walk of life.  Especially in an organisation which is actually funded by charges from the organisations it is supposed to be policing

So how do you reconcile that with the multi-million pound fines levied on 888, Daub Alderney, Casumo and VideoSlots – not to mention the revocation of a couple of licences for breaching rules? Clearly the GC are enforcing their rules.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I just found this thread interesting, I would like to know however how they actually programme a slot to give a lower RTP on lower stakes and whether it makes the programming much more difficult.

Online slots generally don’t have a lower RTP for lower stake, that’s more common on FOBTs. But to answer your question: you give the slot a slightly different reel set to nudge the RTP up or down, thus making winning combinations more or less likely to land. Nothing more complicated than that. Edit: Just because I would like to avoid any accusations of being disingenuous, this is not the ONLY technical way to adjust the RTP on a game, it’s just a common way. Slots are not required to operate by picking a random stop position for each reel, some – as we’ve seen with Jamming Jars – can operate more in a manner akin to scratchcards where there is simply a defined win or lose outcome picked at random. The exact mechanics are not prescribed by regulator rules, but the random outcome part is (for games which fall in to those categories).

nobody knows jack shit, gambling is the most corrupt organisation out there, always will be

We do know, though – this stuff isn’t a matter of opinion, in the UK it’s stringently regulated and you can read the policies and procedures laid down by the regulator yourself, it’s public domain information. All slots have to be approved by an independent test house and have their code audited to ensure they are fair and random and their outcomes correspond to their published claims in respect of things like RTP. These checks are carried out on every game. The Gambling Commission can and have come down very heavily on vendors who have been found in breach of their rules, with massive fines.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

@izattm believe me, I’ve tried explaining how it works with the coin analogy and even that didn’t do it. I’ve broken this topic down every which way you can imagine.

@biohazard I know what you mean, but I don’t do it for the benefit of JB (don’t even see his posts anymore thanks to the ol’ BanditSnatch plugin) or Mr B (who I have nothing against, but clearly no amount of evidence or explanation will be enough to convince him), it’s more so other people reading this topics can have the insight and understanding in to how slots can be both random and have a designed RTP. I think it’s worth covering because I can appreciate why it’s a point of confusion and when you get members muddying the waters by saying things like “no, if it’s got an RTP it can’t be random”, it’s worth taking the time to explain so other people don’t read that and take away the wrong conclusions. It’s important because not understanding it leads people to dangerous fallacies like “if I keep spinning long enough, a bonus will be due and the game will force it to come in to meet its RTP”.

Also I just enjoy writing about programming and maths 🙂

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Particularly I would refer people to the post Calculating the probability in my thread showing a simple slot program for an understanding of how independent, random results can yield a designed long-term RTP. I’ve broken it down in that thread and others several ways, including an example using a simple random dice roll. I honestly have no idea how to break down the concept and maths any further to explain it.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

LOL – to be honest if I was paying £1.50 a minute for a call, asked for a taxi company in Swansea and the guy on the end of the line starting taking up my time briefing me on taxi’s in Cardiff I would probably have a few choice words to say to him too,

Well yeah, that’s the point – I can understand why the customer is angry about it but having been on both sides of the fence, I also understand how shitty it is for the worker who wants to be helpful but isn’t allowed to be. If I skipped a paying advertiser to give a customer a number I knew would be more helpful to them, if that call happened to be recorded I’d get in trouble for it.

Another thing I hated about that job was the stupid KPIs we were judged on. We had one for “call completion” which were the number of people in a shift we were able to connect directly to the number they asked for (which of course cost them a lot more than hanging up and dialling the number themselves). I had no more control or influence over how many of my callers agreed to that than I did over whether it was sunny outside and yet if my rate dropped below 20%, I would get told off like I wasn’t doing my job well enough – despite the fact the script very clearly mandated how and when I asked the question down to the precise wording.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

Mr B wrote:

Random is two people getting exactly the same bonus sequence on jamming jars and it being widely reported. All I am ever saying is the slot industry is not 100% random and yes, every spin is connected, in some way by RTP. When a slot goes into suck mode, and then the bonus finally lands and you get back 1-3% rtp, random died and went to hell in favour of profit mode. When you hit a low symbol on DHV bonus and say the 9’s just refuse to land leaving the word “fix” being said, kills the random theory. I realise no one is denying pre-determined bonuses but that in it self is not random. No one is denying the use of random. At the end of the day, we all know this.

What I heard is that Jamming Jars is more like a virtual scratchcard than a slot, hence why you can get exactly the same bonus sequence as someone else. That’s fine; the winning or losing outcome – the “scratchcard” you get – is still random, it’s just done in a different way than many other slots work. Let’s get those dice rolls out again – if your total is exactly 11, you get a pre-determined bonus sequence which results in you winning 10 x your stake. The outcome of that dice roll is still completely random.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

@Dune2000

Don’t get me wrong, I understand the concept but still adhere to my principle that the random number generator is programmable and hence not random.

The game is programmable, i.e. the design of the reels and paytable, what the chances are of you hitting a win and how much it will be. The RNG is not. The RNG is the dice roll; the provider can’t make it land on a number less than 8, but they have designed the game so that on an entirely random outcome, you only have a 5 in 12 chance of hitting a win. The RTP of the dice game can very easily be adjusted up or down and still the outcome of every roll is random. For example, if we want a 100% RTP, we just make it so you win double your bet if the total is 7 or above, giving you a 50/50 chance of winning. If we want the RTP to be 90%, we make it so you only have to hit 7 or above but instead of winning £2, you win £1.80. These are the parameters the game designers can control, not the random outcome.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.

JB, after the last thread which got you a week’s ban for your absolutely vile language, I decided I no longer wanted to see your posts and actually have a browser extension I made which allows me to block people from the forum appearing on my screen. When you post, what I see now is this:

I’m going to go ahead and assume you’ve written the usual angry fluff of slots aren’t random, the outcomes are rigged, I’m a paid shill for the casino industry, it’s all a conspiracy etc.

Obviously I won’t be responding. The purpose of this post is just to do you the courtesy of letting you know that anything you direct at me won’t be read, acknowledged or replied to because I won’t see it.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

A long, long time ago, I worked in customer service, specifically for a directory enquiries call centre. We had a very specific script we had to follow and we’d get in trouble if we deviated from it, even slightly and even if it was in an effort to give the customer a better service.

I lost count of the number of times I was called stupid, for example, because someone would ask for e.g. a taxi in Swansea and the first result on my screen was a paying advertiser who was a taxi company in Cardiff. Guess what? The rule was I had to read out the top advertiser, so even though I knew it wasn’t what the customer was asking for, I’d have to offer them the number of a taxi company in Cardiff. I was then able to read out the taxi companies in Swansea after they declined. But that wouldn’t stop me getting the abuse from irate customers wondering why the hell this guy on the phone would go “I’ve got ZZ Taxis in Cardiff” when they asked for a taxi in a totally different town.

I was shouted at and called all sorts of names because someone asked for a number that wasn’t listed, or they wanted someone’s home number who was ex-directory, or our system had no record of Woolworths on the street name they insisted it was on, etcetera etcetera.

As a result of this job, I am incredibly respectful to all front line customer service workers now, because I know how stupid the systems imposed on you from above can be, how constrained you are in your ability to help no matter how much you want to and how god-awful and abusive many members of the public can be.

So yeah, when you say “that same copy and paste response changed nothing, just attempted to insult me again”, that guy is not trying to insult you at all, he’s doing his probably quite low paying job within the shitty parameters he’s been given, but you’re probably not making his day great by ranting at him about how everything’s corrupt and calling him ignorant. In another thread, you said “I try to live good with people, I try to speak my mind without persecuting people. I also have no inner wish to cause someone a bad day.” – forgive me if I kindly remind you even casino first line customer support workers are people too.

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