Forum

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

argyl53 wrote:

Oldmoon wrote:

This is a hyperthetical question aimed mostly at Argyl as he is one of the most knowledgeable ones on here regarding how slots work.ok so I’m a streamer who works for the casino on the payroll, I will call myself Nick as this name has a certain how shall we say.well actually I can’t really say but I’m starting to digress so back to the point in question.i play on a test account funded by the casino as its a test account can the slot provider issue a big win as its not a real account and if yes how .i only ask this as on one of dazzas videos he tests out a upcoming slot and he had all the tool bars at the top of the screen to enable him to get instant bonus big win etc.

There’s a few things to pick apart here and I’m not really sure which you meant so I’ll try to cover all the bases:

1. A casino can, in principle, give you an account which they fund and allow you to play slots on it in “real play” but you don’t get to withdraw any winnings. Very few casinos would contemplate doing this, because in such a scenario they still have to pay the game providers their share of the revenue from the play on those accounts and in the long run, this will be a loss for the casino since all slot games have a long term RTP less than 100%. Nothing about the chances of winning or losing is changed or influenced in this scenario.

2. A casino can just let you play in demo mode where no real money is involved for them, you or the game provider, but it’s usually obvious when this is happening as many games (not all though) will not show a currency symbol on the credits in demo mode and of course even if they do, the balance of the player’s account on the casino will not change. All games have the capability for demo mode and other than the fact each spin is communicated bidirectionally between the browser and game server as free play, the game will play exactly the same as it does in real play including any big wins.

3. Prior to releasing a game to the public, for the purposes of marketing the game and player experience to casinos, it’s very common for the games to be built with a special demo mode that allows you to e.g. click a button to force in a feature or some big win combination. This mode does not involve real money and is not the version released to be played by the public, it’s literally a special promotional copy not connected to any live systems.

I hope that helps but let me know if I missed anything you were asking.

So theoretically the 3rd point here COULD be modified so certain affiliates could have a version of it where viewers don’t see the panel where  they select “big win” or “bonus” or “5 scatters” etc, as long as the casino (and provider?) agree to it? So in a corrupt world, this could happen?

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

TheReelStory wrote:

awesomex wrote:

TheReelStory wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

TheReelStory wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

@argyl53 and @thereelstory

listen mateys I know you both are very passionate about this subject. And I know you both have a fuck load of knowledge on how slots are programmed.

But ffs cmon lads. Have a single ounce of what if’s or maybe’s for for fucks sake!

I myself have retracted a lot of my so called conspiracy’s. Due to having no solid proof or evidence.

My argument is that when there’s a fuck load of money involved. Usually there’s some kind of cover up or manipulation going on behind the scenes.

Neither of you are millionaires, or have any insight whatsoever into the workings on top of the casino pyramids. So just give a little. Instead of giving hard NO’s and Catagorical “Your Completely wrongs”.

Cos to be honest lads, you have no real evidence or proof on how slots give or take once they are out of your hands. It’s the fellas High as fuck above your pay grade that have the answers we want to know. And we are never EVER gonna find out how this shit works. Unless a million dollar company with zero tolerance and who can’t be bought look into the workings of online slots.

So shall we give this subject a break or what? ?

The people above our pay grade have no idea how it works haha. You think any exec in a company knows any detail? Only those who built startups.

Now don’t get me wrong, there is all sorts of hooky shit that goes on. I could tell you some stories (and I will if there is a private way to do so) however, it really has nothing to do with the slots or the Casino operations at a game level.

I.E, a game might get on to a certain Casino because someone took the casino manager out and took him to a strip club and got him a BJ. But the game itself? It’s perfectly legit.

The reality is, Casino’s don’t need to rig games etc. They make money (loads of it) legally. No reason to risk that. The technology is legit and does what it does The other stuff around it? Commercials, business deals, backhanders for preferential positioning on a casino page. THAT’s where the corruption is. You’re right, but you’re looking in the wrong place There is much more money to be made dodging tax and doing hooky (but legal) business deals than illegally rigging slots

So the What your saying here is…yeah the heads of these companies are corrupt as fuck, and don’t give a shit about breaking the law. But no way would they rig slots. Why would they? They don’t need to. It’s not in their interest to.

Fuck me……really?

You are so blind sided by your own faith.

 

 

When did I say they break the law? Of course they don’t. They use all of the legal loopholes that money allows. Doesn’t make it any less hooky or morally deficient. Corporations have, for all of time, done whatever they can within the law to maximise their profits.

Taking someone out for a good time for a preferential decision on your product isn’t illegal. It’s business. It’s not a brown bag full of cash. Buying someone a prostitute isn’t the same as a bribe. It’s still shady as hell though.

And i’m not blinded by faith. I’m knowledgeable because of experience. I’ve been there. I KNOW how it works. I know that it’s all legit and well regulated and that the people who work for Casino’s and slot providers, on the ground level, are all really good smart guys and girls.

If it was really rigged, why the heck would I gamble? I know it’s not in my favour mathematically, but I know it’s legit and fun so that’s why I do it.

Rigging slots would be such a hard and risky thing for a company to do. What i’m telling you is there are far easier and legal ways for them to be shady and make much more money. The one who is blinded by their faith is you. You are SO convinced that this must be true, that you reject all logic that points to the opposite, when in fact if you really looked at it, you’d know that all sorts of shady shit goes on in business (not just gambling. ALL business), just not the bit you’re fixated on ?

It’s incredible to me that you believe there’s no shady shit involved. When you start gambling at an online casino, you have no say in anything, you have to sign a 1-sided contract, written by the other side, and you get no say in any of the terms of the contract. You’ve also got no way to confirm if the information they’re providing you is real. Not to mention the fact that they can make up any excuse they feel like to void your winning bets. Believe me, it happened to me with Betsson, the biggest casino in Europe. They voided a bet due to a malfunction, despite the fact the MGA investigation revealed that there was no malfunction. In the end, Betsson didn’t have to do a thing, and kept their money.

Did you see the AJ v Ruiz fight? Did you see the punches that supposedly knocked AJ out? Ruiz barely touched him, and even so he only got in cus one of the worlds best boxers was bending towards him for ages to let him get the punches in. Holyfield was asked before the Mayweather v Pac fight, who he thought was gonna win. Holyfield’s reply was “Whoever they’ve decided is gonna win, will win”. Here again, there’s no need to rig gambling, but they do it. It’s happened all throughout history. Wherever there’s power and money involved, people will be corrupt.

When it comes to the ones who investigate slots and such, to see if there’s any shady shit going on; if they found that it’s all shady, do you think they would report it? After being flown in, picked up at the airport, driven to a 5 star all paid for hotel, and having a taxi bring them to the office every day? Fancy dinners every night? If they found it all to be fraudulent and they reported it, they would be out of work!

I think you’ll find I specifically said LOTS of shady shit goes on. What I said was, it is NOT rigging of the games. The tech is sound.

I’ve been the victim of a dodgy Casino using T&C’s to void winnings. I had to raise a complaint with AskGamblers and they actually found in my favour and I got my money.

I know this shit happens. I SAID there is lots of shady BUSINESS shit that goes on. The games, however, are not rigged. This is how this started. You claimed some technical details of how the games worked and we told you you were wrong and told you how they ACTUALLY work. That holds true. We are correct on the operation of slots.

That Casino’s will try to find legal ways (and yes, T&C’s are legal) to fuck players, yeh, lots do (especially the Curaco licensed ones). THey rely on people not reading the T&C’s and then using spurious wording and hoping people won’t fight it. That shit is awful and it happens. Not disputing that. It is legal if you breach the T&C’s and they withhold your winnings tho. It’s up to you to read the T&C’s before you play. That’s life.

Ok, so let’s take it from the point of rigging games. I made another post on the forum called “conspiracy theorists start your engines”, where I showed clear examples of rigged games. Live games, but those are audited even more than the slots, yet they are clearly rigged. I even spoke to Evolution Gaming reps, who confirmed that in online blackjack they remove an unknown quantity of face value cards, to give the house a bigger edge, as card counting to give yourself a higher probability is still possible when dealing through only ~200 of the cards in the 8 decks. This is information nobody is given before entering the tables, yet that’s how they operate, which is a blatant violation of the normal rules of blackjack.
Note: This is what they told me when I spoke to them a couple of years ago. It might have changed since, but I doubt they would give up an edge.
Like on the Monopoly wheel, when you get to the rolls, the buildings placed are computer generated, and there are always way more buildings on the board when there’s 2 rolls than when there’s 4. Not sure if this is something stated in the rules of the game, mind you, but I doubt it.

I think like this: If I get a win on my screen and the money goes into my casino account, the win is legit. If it needs investigated and the casino says it’s not legit, then there’s a problem between the casino and the provider that I shouldn’t be punished for. It’s way too easy to say “there was a malfunction. Too bad, you lose”.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

TheReelStory wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

TheReelStory wrote:

Just Basics wrote:

@argyl53 and @thereelstory

listen mateys I know you both are very passionate about this subject. And I know you both have a fuck load of knowledge on how slots are programmed.

But ffs cmon lads. Have a single ounce of what if’s or maybe’s for for fucks sake!

I myself have retracted a lot of my so called conspiracy’s. Due to having no solid proof or evidence.

My argument is that when there’s a fuck load of money involved. Usually there’s some kind of cover up or manipulation going on behind the scenes.

Neither of you are millionaires, or have any insight whatsoever into the workings on top of the casino pyramids. So just give a little. Instead of giving hard NO’s and Catagorical “Your Completely wrongs”.

Cos to be honest lads, you have no real evidence or proof on how slots give or take once they are out of your hands. It’s the fellas High as fuck above your pay grade that have the answers we want to know. And we are never EVER gonna find out how this shit works. Unless a million dollar company with zero tolerance and who can’t be bought look into the workings of online slots.

So shall we give this subject a break or what? ?

The people above our pay grade have no idea how it works haha. You think any exec in a company knows any detail? Only those who built startups.

Now don’t get me wrong, there is all sorts of hooky shit that goes on. I could tell you some stories (and I will if there is a private way to do so) however, it really has nothing to do with the slots or the Casino operations at a game level.

I.E, a game might get on to a certain Casino because someone took the casino manager out and took him to a strip club and got him a BJ. But the game itself? It’s perfectly legit.

The reality is, Casino’s don’t need to rig games etc. They make money (loads of it) legally. No reason to risk that. The technology is legit and does what it does The other stuff around it? Commercials, business deals, backhanders for preferential positioning on a casino page. THAT’s where the corruption is. You’re right, but you’re looking in the wrong place There is much more money to be made dodging tax and doing hooky (but legal) business deals than illegally rigging slots

So the What your saying here is…yeah the heads of these companies are corrupt as fuck, and don’t give a shit about breaking the law. But no way would they rig slots. Why would they? They don’t need to. It’s not in their interest to.

Fuck me……really?

You are so blind sided by your own faith.

 

 

When did I say they break the law? Of course they don’t. They use all of the legal loopholes that money allows. Doesn’t make it any less hooky or morally deficient. Corporations have, for all of time, done whatever they can within the law to maximise their profits.

Taking someone out for a good time for a preferential decision on your product isn’t illegal. It’s business. It’s not a brown bag full of cash. Buying someone a prostitute isn’t the same as a bribe. It’s still shady as hell though.

And i’m not blinded by faith. I’m knowledgeable because of experience. I’ve been there. I KNOW how it works. I know that it’s all legit and well regulated and that the people who work for Casino’s and slot providers, on the ground level, are all really good smart guys and girls.

If it was really rigged, why the heck would I gamble? I know it’s not in my favour mathematically, but I know it’s legit and fun so that’s why I do it.

Rigging slots would be such a hard and risky thing for a company to do. What i’m telling you is there are far easier and legal ways for them to be shady and make much more money. The one who is blinded by their faith is you. You are SO convinced that this must be true, that you reject all logic that points to the opposite, when in fact if you really looked at it, you’d know that all sorts of shady shit goes on in business (not just gambling. ALL business), just not the bit you’re fixated on ?

It’s incredible to me that you believe there’s no shady shit involved. When you start gambling at an online casino, you have no say in anything, you have to sign a 1-sided contract, written by the other side, and you get no say in any of the terms of the contract. You’ve also got no way to confirm if the information they’re providing you is real. Not to mention the fact that they can make up any excuse they feel like to void your winning bets. Believe me, it happened to me with Betsson, the biggest casino in Europe. They voided a bet due to a malfunction, despite the fact the MGA investigation revealed that there was no malfunction. In the end, Betsson didn’t have to do a thing, and kept their money.

Did you see the AJ v Ruiz fight? Did you see the punches that supposedly knocked AJ out? Ruiz barely touched him, and even so he only got in cus one of the worlds best boxers was bending towards him for ages to let him get the punches in.
Holyfield was asked before the Mayweather v Pac fight, who he thought was gonna win. Holyfield’s reply was “Whoever they’ve decided is gonna win, will win”. Here again, there’s no need to rig gambling, but they do it. It’s happened all throughout history. Wherever there’s power and money involved, people will be corrupt.

When it comes to the ones who investigate slots and such, to see if there’s any shady shit going on; if they found that it’s all shady, do you think they would report it? After being flown in, picked up at the airport, driven to a 5 star all paid for hotel, and having a taxi bring them to the office every day? Fancy dinners every night? If they found it all to be fraudulent and they reported it, they would be out of work!

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Let’s think about it this way: Many people are driven by the likes on their facebook posts, the retweets of their tweets and such, cus that’s what they need in order to get validation for what they’re saying. If someone says “If someone is born a fat American man, but dies their hair pink and believes they are a filipino woman, that makes them a filipino woman” and they get 10k likes on their post, they actually believe what they’re saying is the truth, regardless of the scientific facts that if you’re born a man, you will always be a man.

It’s kinda like talking to a religious nutcase – It doesn’t matter what you tell them, cus their fantasy story knows better than your scientific facts.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Just Basics wrote:

awesomex wrote:

Rbreen91 wrote:

Imagine actually coming into the internet to lie about your IQ when you’ve just been rinsed about knowing absolutely fuck all about how slots work.

Who made you the judge of who’s right and who’s wrong? Do you think that just cus a majority of people say something, then that’s how it is? 99 out of 100 people can be wrong, while the 1 can be right, you know? People have always believed that they know better than they do, and since the internet came about, they find likeminded average souls who think the same way they do, and therefor think what they’re saying is right. It’s the same with politics. When the majority of the people in the world are stupid, and the smartest people choose other paths than politics (even though they understand politics better than anyone else), it shows that just cus someone gangs up and points a finger and laughs, they don’t necessarily speak with any more authority than the one standing alone.

I fucking love you @awesomex

Please don’t get hung up on how some of these lads gang up. It’s mostly banter. And I’ve had plenty aimed at me in the past here. It soon swings back to being good fun.

Anyway it’s a huge pleasure to me finding someone like yourself on this forum.

#Legend

Hahaha, yeah I love your comments too mate.

People have this sick need for group thinking and approval, as if that’s a measure of intelligence or knowledge. It’s like Europeans sitting in their living rooms, commenting on how Trump is so bad for the US, while their only information about Trump comes from BBC and their partners, who will report things like “Trump had a meeting with the NK president and the NK president made Trump believe in his lies” – Not a word about a step closer to a peace deal no other president has ever managed to do. They started crying about “here comes world war 3” when Trump got elected over Clinton, completely disregarding the fact that Clinton had been talking about war with China, Russia and the lot all through her election campaign. Or even the fact that Trump has always had more Democratic views than Republican.

It shines through everywhere. People are hypnotized by what the “authorities” say is true. They live in a prison, but they think they’re free.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Rbreen91 wrote:

Imagine actually coming into the internet to lie about your IQ when you’ve just been rinsed about knowing absolutely fuck all about how slots work.

Who made you the judge of who’s right and who’s wrong? Do you think that just cus a majority of people say something, then that’s how it is? 99 out of 100 people can be wrong, while the 1 can be right, you know?
People have always believed that they know better than they do, and since the internet came about, they find likeminded average souls who think the same way they do, and therefor think what they’re saying is right. It’s the same with politics. When the majority of the people in the world are stupid, and the smartest people choose other paths than politics (even though they understand politics better than anyone else), it shows that just cus someone gangs up and points a finger and laughs, they don’t necessarily speak with any more authority than the one standing alone.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

argyl53 wrote:

Rbreen91 wrote:

Imagine having an IQ of 180 and still being as thick as mince? Doesn’t make much sense. You don’t even know what fraud is, as you proved in the past. But you’re a super-genius clearly… ????????

Stephen Hawking had an IQ score of 160 and although IQ is not quite a reliable measure overall intelligence, the difference in cognitive ability between a score of 160 and 180 is huge when it comes to statistics – I mean, 160 puts you in the top 0.1% of the world’s population, whereas 180 puts you somewhere around the 12th highest score ever recorded. I just don’t know how someone can come on a forum, lose an argument and then go “yeah well I’ve got an IQ over 180 and I’m in Mensa so there”, it’s like something a fourteen year old would do, it just shows a total lack of self-respect and dignity I think.

1 in 3.5 million people have an IQ of 180 or more.
If you believe it or not doesn’t matter to me, as the people around me in my everyday life know it.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Almost all of you are actually sitting in front of your computers, defending one of the most corrupt industries in the world. That says a lot

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

By the way, the lack of true randomness is not there for the player, it’s there as a safeguard to the casino, so a slot doesn’t end up with a negative RTP of 5000%. On certain casinos you can see how novomatic slots have behaved, and you will never see them in a huge deficit.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Cus slots can’t be manipulated:

That’s why casinos have to contact the provider to verify huge wins, cus the slots can’t be manipulated. Right?

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Let me just add that I’m a mensa member with a measured and verified IQ of 180. Only 1 in 3.5 million people understand logics as well as I do, so unless you’re one of them, you’re not even gonna be able to follow the argument on the level I’m presenting it.

I see patterns in everything, and everyone still stand on their claims that their man made products are random. It makes no sense at all.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

I give up. If you want to claim you understand the meaning of random, while saying “random enough” is random, you’re a lost cause, and have no sense of logics at all.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

If there was such a thing as true randomness, you could end up winning the jackpot/highest payout 10 spins in a row at max stake, and if that was possible, a casino could go bankrupt over 10 spins on a slot machine.
True randomness is the only thing that is random. “Random enough” means it’s not really random, which means there are certain parameters set that prevents payouts to be too big.

Example: BTG says their slots can have a set max payout on any given spin/sequence, and it’s different from casino to casino. How do you take this into randomness? The answer is: You can’t.

Slot code HAS to be programmed so you can only get certain combinations x amount of times over x amount of spins. Without it, there is no way to guarantee a profitable slot, or even guarantee the RTP.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

32red wrote:

Yeah that’s not how RTP works. There is no ‘pot’ where RTP is taken from. The figure is purely theoretical. Think of roulette where you get a 35/1 payout but the true payout is 36/1. Slots work on the same basis but just with millions more combinations and associated odds for hitting each every time you hit spin.

If you hit a jackpot then your odds of hitting it on the next spin again are exactly the same.

If Roshtein was getting 300% sticky bonuses on £2k deposits with no cap or max bet then doubt that is insanely profitable (and likely far too profitable for it to be offered). Running through a sim with £50 spins suggests an expected value of around £1700 profit.

No, there is actually no such thing as true randomness in code. It’s impossible to achieve true randomness in something man made. So no, dumbass, you’re not getting to walk away with this bullshit.
I recommend people read this, so you get to understand that there is no such thing as true randomness in man made computer code.

Can a computer generate a truly random number?

Check mate, morons

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

There is something called a “ghost payment” which is when you make a payment with your debit card. Here’s how it works:
You make a payment with your debit card – bank/Visa/Mastercard creates a reservation code and reserves the payment for up to 10 days. Vendors can claim the transaction within 10 working days. Sometimes vendors claim the transaction without using the reservation code, which then draws the amount out of your account twice, but one of them is only a pending reservation, which is supposed to be cancelled if not claimed within 10 working days (some banks operate with 3 days instead of 10).
The odd thing here is that it’s taken more than that for you. That’s very odd. I suggest you go to your online banking and check which if there actually are 2 transactions there, and if either of them are listed as reserved. These are usually written in Cursive and/or capital letters and says “reserved” or something similar, while a claimed payment (money that is truly out of your account) is in regular font.

If none of the above apply to you, you’ve been fucked and need to contact the casino and complain. If you have all the documentation to prove it, take it to casinomeister and file a PAB, and a player arbitration manager will contact the casino on your behalf and help you out. Trust me, these guys are good help and work fast.

[Author]

Posts