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Edit: not even joking, I wrote this post before I saw @eejit101 response, and he’s raised amazingly similar points (even using Jammin’ Jars as an example) as I have, haha. Mad.
“This slot is random” – public notice on many slot machines. Moving from a networked physical slot machine with a pc inside, to a pc with a browser window changes what ? Nothing from my point of view.
The physical construction means nothing, I agree with you. That’s not what makes it random at all. What makes it random is the classification of the game and the notice “this machine is random”. If it has that statement, each spin is random. This isn’t up for debate. What could be a debate here is whether you trust each individual slot or provider that they are adhering to gambling laws.
But at least you are now happily admitting that a bonus is rigged.
I have always been very happy in stating that most bonuses are pre-determined, this isn’t a new revelation? It’s actually quite common knowledge. Rigged wouldn’t be my choice of words, but I understand where you’re coming from in regards to the bonus.
I will repeat – the outcome of each individual spin is random. That is, in regards to the amount won. The graphical representation of that win can vary greatly.
As an example to this, let’s say you’re playing Jammin’ Jars on £1/spin. On a given spin, the RNG generates a result that gives you a win of £845.60. It could quite easily just skip all the visuals and say “Win: £845.60” and move onto the next spin, but instead, it represents this as a bonus. The way the jars move, the wins that you get, on each spin in the bonus, may seem random, but it’s not. It’s pre-determined and just graphically showing you how you achieved your win. Why? Because it’s more engaging for the player.
But what you need to take away from this, is yes, the way the bonus played out visually isn’t random, but the win, the £845.60, absolutely is. I really don’t understand why you can’t grasp this point. Me, Argyl and others have articulated this in so many ways, but you’re still refusing to listen to what we’re saying. Any developer that works in this industry can confirm what I’m saying here.
I implore you not to just disregard this post, because it’s the truth.
As a side-note, not all bonuses are pre-determined from the point you press spin. Some gambles have elements of randomness to them, and certain pick features (albeit these days, very few by the look of it) are random too.
Random and RTP are not 100% separated. Therefore there IS rigging, in EVERY slot, on EVERY spin. It doesn’t matter if it’s a weighted dice (structured reelset) or not.
A weighted dice is a (somewhat) incorrect way to describe the randomness of slots. With online slots, there are simply more RNG outcomes that result in a low win amount than a high one. A better analogy would be to have a 100,000,000 sided dice, where only if you land exactly a 1, 2 or 3 would result in a monster win.
You keep referring to the business model, in that it’s not in the business’ interest to use randomness to control the outcome and payouts of their games. But this is nonsense, as randomness is an excellent control mechanism (again, research the law of large numbers).
I said I’m not paranoid, Please don’t play with that word when talking to me.
Who’s playing with that word? You said you’re not paranoid, and I agreed with you. Being paranoid and being wrong are two very different things.
Gutted mate! Get plenty of rest (well, you’re sort of forced to now…) and it’ll mend in no time! I also hear broken bones repair stronger than before 😉
1What are you talking about? We’re talking about bonuses here… bonuses are widely pre-determined by most if not all providers, that’s nothing new. It’s the outcome of every unique spin that is random. Please stop mixing up individual spins and a full bonus (end to end) as it harms the integrity of this debate.
No matter what, to achieve an RTP, no matter the numbers, there has to be some sort of rigging.
? I strongly advise you to do some research on the law of large numbers (or the law of averages, as it is commonly but incorrectly generalised to). I’ll help you get started:
In probability theory, the law of large numbers (LLN) is a theorem that describes the result of performing the same experiment a large number of times. According to the law, the average of the results obtained from a large number of trials should be close to the expected value, and will tend to become closer as more trials are performed.
The LLN is important because it guarantees stable long-term results for the averages of some random events. For example, while a casino may lose money in a single spin of the roulette wheel, its earnings will tend towards a predictable percentage over a large number of spins. Any winning streak by a player will eventually be overcome by the parameters of the game. It is important to remember that the law only applies (as the name indicates) when a large number of observations is considered. There is no principle that a small number of observations will coincide with the expected value or that a streak of one value will immediately be “balanced” by the others (see the gambler’s fallacy).
I wouldn’t say you’re necessarily paranoid – you’re just wrong.
1Haha, I did enjoy that first video.
I will say, I’m not certain on how the 100k Drop bonus operates, whether it is a true random outcome at each stage (essentially piling money onto a 25% pie gamble, followed by another 25% pie gamble, followed by a 33% pie gamble, followed by a 50% pie gamble), or whether it is pre-determined on that spin, by the RNG, to pay out a maximum of x. I’m not even sure if the latter is possible under UK gambling laws, but I’m chucking it out there as a possibility.
If it is a true random outcome, which I’m pretty convinced that it is, you will only get to the end with all of the money 1 in every 96 bonuses, on average. It could be less, or it could be significantly more than that. That’s a lot of bonuses, even for a slot like this that can be quite generous. The odds of getting to the end can be improved in the player’s favour by distributing the money across multiple areas. The best possible outcome (by distributing all of the money across all of the available areas, minus the one that you are forced to keep blank), still only would let you, on average, reach the end 1 in every 5 or 6 bonuses.
Further evidence to support this theory, is that, under true random conditions, this bonus will only pay on average 21x. Given the frequency of the bonus, that feels about right to fit in nicely with the RTP. It just feels much worse (or ‘rigged’) due to the stage by stage nature of the gamble, just like how reaching 27 spins and 10x on Viking’s Unleashed seems more achievable than it is, just because the pie gamble for each individual gamble is so far in the player’s favour. But cumulatively, the odds aren’t good at all.
So yeah, I’m not completely sure on how the bonus is determined on this slot, but my guess would definitely be the true random route. There isn’t really any reason for the provider not to do it this way.
1Keep us updated when you get round to doing this, love a good bonus hunt me!
I’ve probably bought around 30 to 35 features so far on this on free play, and no word of a lie I think only two or three actually profited. Obviously the potential is insane, but it’s obvious the RTP is saved for those huge full screen wins.
11Tax can be an absolute nightmare to calculate. The HMRC online portal is really useful though, allows you to check your tax, national insurance, update benefits etc.
16th March 2019 at 3:05 pm in reply to: £1,000 in – 500 spins @ £2 – what game would you play? #53147Honestly depends on how I’m feeling, what my target is and how long I’d like the session to last for.
If I can accept a bust town for the possibility of a decent bonus or two, I might try some Novo’s like Captain Venture, Lucky Lady’s Charm, Book of Ra etc.
If I’m looking for a slightly longer session, I might try slots like Wild Heist, Golden Fish Tank, Bonanza etc.
Fruit Warp is my favourite slot, but I only play that with a big balance, as the way I play it means my session on it can be quite long and demanding on the balance.
1I wouldn’t worry too much bud, obviously it’s anxiety level maximum until that money is in your account, but Videoslots are pretty reputable and it’s very unlikely the game would have displayed an incorrect result. Whenever I’ve had a huge win, it often takes them a bit longer to do some validation checks. Probably just their own way of delaying payout, but you should get it soon!
Best of luck!
Plenty out there! Spidermint has named a few already. There’s Grosvenor Casino, Betfred, Bet365 and Ladbrokes also!
P.s. stay away from LeoVegas!
Why stay away from Leo?,its my favourite casino to play at?
It takes a lot for me to advise anyone to steer clear of a particular casino, everyone on this forum knows I love to defend casinos where necessary. But my experience with them has been absolutely abysmal. Not going into the details because I can’t be arsed, but their customer service is by a long way the worst I have ever experienced from any company. Big statement, yes, but I’m genuinely serious.
Anyway, since sharing this elsewhere, it appears plenty of other reputable players have had similar experiences. In my last email to Leo, I literally made clear I’ll be advising as many people as I can to steer clear of them, so I intend to do that. ?
Crap had Id known that mate I would have used another site. Thats a pity but cheers for your kind words
All good, at the end of the day, on a case by case basis, the difference isn’t huge. You’ll still get a tidy sum for your charity from the donations! 🙂
I can’t donate at the mo, but will do so when my expenses come through from work in the next week (give me a little nudge if I forget!).
I love this slot, but man can the bonus dick you. I’ve had far too many 3/4/5 spin bonuses that have gone for basically nothing!
Nice win 🙂
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